Personal Notes on Production Floor vs. Documented Work Instructions

N

Neil V.

#11
Re: Personal Notes on Production Floor

BTW, Welcome, Fenway Frank!

...My company has documented work instructions for these tasks, and the instructions are readily available. Interestingly, the notes were right on track with the documented instructions. Is this a nonconformance?
So are those against 'notes' thinking this is an NC?
 
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SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#12
Re: Personal Notes on Production Floor

We've already established that the notes are in agreement with the implemented instructions so....

I would probably look more closely to see if there is a training issue, there is an issue with how the work instructions are written, etc. I'd want to know why the same information that is supposed to be a controlled document is floating around in another format without control. Since the documents are already in the QMS, I would surely lean toward a nonconformance. If all information is as given to us here, no more, no less, yes.
 
J

Jason PCSwitches

#13
Re: Personal Notes on Production Floor

Excellent post. I have 2 schools of thoughts.

1st - At some point auditors need to relax a little and evaluate if the process is being executed in the proper manner as prescribed in the procedure and not worry about tic-tack stuff. As stated in a prior post, as long as you could show me the process is effective and compliant to your procedures, and how changes to the relevant procedure would be communicated to ensure the operator is made aware, probably no problem. If it adds value with little or no risk, whats the problem?

2nd - Along the lines of the procedure not being clear, or saving time flipping thru a binder looking for work instructions, lets see what AS9100 has to say:

4.2.3 d. "To ensure that relevant versions of applicable documents are available at points of use".

Are they? If so, and you can prove effective document change control/notification, no worries IMHO.
 
G

Groo3

#14
Re: Personal Notes on Production Floor

BTW, Welcome, Fenway Frank!

So are those against 'notes' thinking this is an NC?
Nope, I'm in agreement with Wes's comments that it may be appropriate to mark this as an OFI (opportunity for improvement). I say write the OFI and move on. :2cents: My personal preference is to see the hand written notes be the foundation of the procedure, and have the operator write the procedure or at the least, be an approver.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#15
Re: Personal Notes on Production Floor

I do not think it is possible to write a procedure or work instruction that can be everything to everyone, including have "sufficient" detail and yet be small enough to manage.

I am inclined to say that to worry about updates is worthwhile, but if they are not moving their arms and legs to an open page's direction what difference would a change make then?

The organization gets to determine if it's allowable. I've done work in which working from memory or using handwritten or other supplemental notes was strictly forbidden. But their upkeep was a good deal of effort; keep that in mind when deciding the right thing to do.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#16
Re: Personal Notes on Production Floor

Nope, I'm in agreement with Wes's comments that it may be appropriate to mark this as an OFI (opportunity for improvement). I say write the OFI and move on. :2cents: My personal preference is to see the hand written notes be the foundation of the procedure, and have the operator write the procedure or at the least, be an approver.
My thought continues to be in the vein of Deming - if there is ANY issue, it falls squarely on management shoulders.

Questions for management (ala the 5 Ys, but why stop at 5):

  1. If the "official" work instructions are available, WHY does worker feel need to use his own notes?
  2. Are they more understandable in straightforward language?
  3. Are they easier to access?
  4. Are they more detailed with little "tricks of the trade?"
  5. Do ALL operators refer to notes or only some?
  6. How many operators rely on memory alone and never consult notes or official work instructions?
  7. Do different operators have different notes?
  8. Do ANY of the personal notes conflict with official version?
  9. How long has this practice been going on?
  10. Has it been going on through more than one audit? If yes, did other auditors note and ignore or not note at all?
  11. How were the operators trained? Did trainers refer to personal notes during training or only the official WI?
  12. And so forth and so forth.
As I wrote, an opportunity for improvement, but improvement of management practices, not the operators!
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Staff member
Super Moderator
#17
Re: Personal Notes on Production Floor

wow! nicely done everyone.
I think we've moved beyond knee jerk "it's a NC" to really thinking about the problem at hand. I won't add to the substantive part of the discussion as others are handling that nicely. I'll just say that this is a refreshing and balanced approach to a real issue.

(but I am enjoying that popcorn!)
 
S

Sorin

#18
Re: Personal Notes on Production Floor

As I wrote, an opportunity for improvement, but improvement of management practices, not the operators!
I know that 'most' of the time it's management's fault....but sometimes employees need to take responsibility and follow the rules/instructions/procedures/etc. In our case:

1.If it's not controlled, do not use it.
2.If the controlled document is obsolete/incorrect/etc raise a finding and let the process (document control) follow it's course.

It does not get much simpler than that.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#19
Re: Personal Notes on Production Floor

I know that 'most' of the time it's management's fault....but sometimes employees need to take responsibility and follow the rules/instructions/procedures/etc. In our case:

1.If it's not controlled, do not use it.
2.If the controlled document is obsolete/incorrect/etc raise a finding and let the process (document control) follow it's course.

It does not get much simpler than that.
Sure - except that OP does NOT state a company policy to ALWAYS refer to official WI before proceeding [or even ANY reference, official or not.] In fact, the mere fact this situation exists means the management has probably paid little attention to this operation at all - often the case when product flows smoothly through the system, then management may be forgiven for the if it ain't broke, don't fix it mentality.,
 
S

Sorin

#20
Re: Personal Notes on Production Floor

Sure - except that OP does NOT state a company policy to ALWAYS refer to official WI before proceeding [or even ANY reference, official or not.]

Hehe...that's like one of the 10th commandments of Quality in any system....too bad for those who did not make that clear from the start.
 
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