Personnel Unaware of the Quality Policy

[RoxaneB]

I don't agree with that assertion. I feel that everyone should know where the policy can be found, not know it by heart.

I don't agree that they even need to know where it can be found (unless you're talking specifically about top management here, Coury). All I care about is whether or not people understand their role within the company and how their output becomes an input to Stakeholders being happy.

Our auditor loves going into one of Maintenance areas and asking who the Customer is. Overall response is "Do you want to know who our direct Customer is or who the final Customer is? Either way, we can tell you how we impact 'em." I love our Maintenance guys!

That being said, one of our Sales areas had the Quality Policy posted in the men's bathroom. Guess it served as quick reading material.

 

[chergh - 2008]

As long as non-management personnel understand how their work contributes to the product and are aware of what to do when things go wrong I don't care if they are able to locate a copy of the quality policy.

I have never yet seen a policy which is worth the paper its written on, and I've written a few of them, and in general they tend to be vision statements.

Policy may be relevant at a process management level but to your average engineer, operator, admin staff etc it's of very little, if any relevance.

I remember a post on here once where an auditor asked what the quality policy meant to an operator the reply was something along the lines of "dont ship no s**t" to this day that is still the best response to the question I have heard.

 

[Coury Ferguson]

I don't agree that they even need to know where it can be found (unless you're talking specifically about top management here, Coury).

So, you feel that the policy (people) should not know where to find the policy? How would you be able to determine if Top Management has clearly stated and conveyed what the policy is? (ISO9001:2000, Paragraph 5.3)

That being said, one of our Sales areas had the Quality Policy posted in the men's bathroom. Guess it served as quick reading material.

Or something else

 

[Randy]

Here's what's actually required......

"d) is communicated and understood within the organization"

Employees don't need to know where it's at

They don't need to know it verbatum

They don't need to know who wrote it or who's responsible for it

If fact there really isn't a requirement that "everyone" understand it, just that it is understood "in" the organization.

Understand is essentially what does it mean.

 

[Coury Ferguson]

Here's what's actually required......

"d) is communicated and understood within the organization"

Employees don't need to know where it's at

They don't need to know it verbatum

They don't need to know who wrote it or who's responsible for it

If fact there really isn't a requirement that "everyone" understand it, just that it is understood "in" the organization.

Understand is essentially what does it mean.

I have always been under the belief (and how I train) that I don't require anyone to know anything verbatim, only know where to find it.

 

[Jim Wynne]

I have always been under the belief (and how I train) that I don't require anyone to know anything verbatim, only know where to find it.

You're certainly not alone in that regard. There are two prongs to the clause in question: "communicated" and "understood." We can assume that if the latter is true--employees understand the policy--that the former must be true as well. On the other hand, knowing how to access the policy satisfies only one of the two requirements. If you can demonstrate that people understand the policy--which is much more important than knowing where it is--there's no need for anyone to know where it is.

 

[Coury Ferguson]

You're certainly not alone in that regard. There are two prongs to the clause in question: "communicated" and "understood." We can assume that if the latter is true--employees understand the policy--that the former must be true as well. On the other hand, knowing how to access the policy satisfies only one of the two requirements. If you can demonstrate that people understand the policy--which is much more important than knowing where it is--there's no need for anyone to know where it is.

That is a valid point Jim.

 

[RoxaneB]

So, you feel that the policy (people) should not know where to find the policy?

In the grand scheme of running the business, knowing the locations of the Quality Policy is not exactly on their Top 10 list of things to know. They'll all say the BMS manual - which is correct - but they won't know the physical locations around the mill. And if they give the answer of "We ask Roxane if we forget" then everyone's happy.

How would you be able to determine if Top Management has clearly stated and conveyed what the policy is? (ISO9001:2000, Paragraph 5.3)

Clearly stated? Easy...they approved the manual, they have discussed the need for changes (or no changes) annually at Management Review (with minutes to prove this), while ensuring that the Quality Policy continues to represent who we are and what we do.

Conveyed? Again, easy. We audit people at various levels throughout the organization. If they understand their roles and responsibilities and how they impact the Customer being happy, I'd say the communication has been done. We also have various forms of communication with employees such as orientations, newsletters, meetings, memos, etc., where such concepts are discussed.

Do we say "This is the Quality Policy?" No. We don't run a business based on what ISO 9001 dictates. We run a business and integrate ISO 9001 into our system. We don't do things because of ISO...it's simply what we do.

We have something called a Quality Policy. But it also exists within our Basic Values and Beliefs. It contains information fundamental to our Management System and to what we do. Which is why when an auditor asks "What is your Quality Policy and where do you find it?", they'll get a blank stare. Ask an employee "What do you do? Why is it important? How does it keep the Stakeholder happy? How do you know this?" and you'll get a much more valuable (and passionate) response.

 

[BradM]

Here's what's actually required......

"d) is communicated and understood within the organization"

Employees don't need to know where it's at

They don't need to know it verbatum

They don't need to know who wrote it or who's responsible for it

If fact there really isn't a requirement that "everyone" understand it, just that it is understood "in" the organization.

Understand is essentially what does it mean.

OK, let's assume Randy is right (which he probably is. I think he likes hearing that ) What good comes from assessing understanding? Do they understand it exists? Do they understand what managements' job is? Do they need to question if the organization is following the quality policy?

Let' s also assume that the 5000+ covers comprise the hammer wielding power of the quality industry. We write the procedures, and audit against them.

As I read the threads on the Quality Policy, at best we say "Ok, they should read and understand them". On the other end, we hear they are not worth the paper they are written on. Each of these may be factual, depending on how well the policy is written.

If we're all over the place on the policy, why have this requirement in the first place? Take it out. Make everybody's life easier.

If these quality policies are "lip service on the wall", get rid of them. We'll issue everyone teddies and blankies for security.

If they are supposed to accomplish something, let's figure out what that something is and solidify it a bit better.

 

[Randy]

Thanks for the nice comment there Brad. Are you anywhere near Seguin?

As for the Communication aspect, communication requires the transmision of information in such a fashion that it can be understood and used by the receptor. If information serves no purpose (use) it serves no purpose