PFMEA - Is having the DFMEA An Absolute Requirement when doing a PFMEA

[Amex]

I understand the desirability and importance of having the DFMEA on hand when preparing a PFMEA. However, is it an absolute requirement? Can you reasonably expect to be able to complete a PFMEA without access to the design?

IMHO, since design changes are not meant as fixes for PFMEAs, all is not lost just because we don't have a design.

What say you all

 

[Marc]

Nope - the requirement is not 'absolute'. Many times a non-design responsible supplier cannot get a DFMEA from their customer.

 

[Howard Atkins]

I would say most times the DFMEA is not available.

 

[Marc]

You're right. I was being overly optimistic using the word 'many' instead of 'most'.

 

[Amex]

Thank you!!

 

[Howard Atkins]

Has anything changed in the last 4 years?

 

[Marc]

You know, when I saw the title of this thread I was thinking about that, Howard. I was doing an APQP overview the other day and I was going through the 'Reality' vs. 'Theory' aspect. These folks are not design responsible. In these situations I try to explain that the APQP manual is theory and, as my 'standard' example, I cited the fact that most suppliers have a 'snowball's chance in hades' of getting a customer's DFMEA.

I say it's still true. Was last in the 'trenches' as a QE from April 2002 through May 2003 and it was true then with the two customers (I was 'dedicated' to Harley-Davidson and Visteon) I 'worked' with.

Nothing has changed.

 

[Bill Ryan - 2007]

I agree - Nothing has changed. From my view, I wonder if a "big" reason is that my customers perform a DFMEA on their assembled part and don't dive down to the component level (which is what we supply). I have gotten two DFMEAs from two different customers over the last 7 years and I really had to hunt to find references to our component.

 

[The Taz!]

I would say that seeing most customers do not give DFMEA's out because afterall, it indicates liability, they do however at least in some cases, pass down significant and critical characteristics and parameters which are used on the DFMEA and PCP.

I'd say you are getting the important and usable parts of ther DFMEA in that context.

 

[M Greenaway]

I would say that the design FMEA is not required for the process FMEA.

What you do need is the output of the design process, which is often the drawings, not the DFMEA itself. The drawings should detail the special characteristics, etc, that need to be considered in the process FMEA.