PFMEA (Process FMEA) Recommended Actions Column

try2makeit

Quite Involved in Discussions
#1
Hi all,

I have received a PFMEA from one of our Suppliers with whom we had some product issues with.

In reviewing the PFMEA the issues that have happened were all answered as daily audit in the recommended actions column.

I totally disagree with this. It did not decrease the R.P.N and a daily audit does not prevent any of the failures. I can go and audit our plant every day and once I'm done auditing, something could happen.

However I will accept a daily audit if they implemented something that will prevent the failures.

Am I am wrong here?

Thanks for your help.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: PFMEA Recommended Actions

Without more details it's impossible to tell whether what the supplier did or proposed should be considered acceptable. In what context did you receive the PFMEA? Are the problems recent? What makes you feel the RPN should have been reduced? Are you sure the problem(s) is/are preventable?
 

try2makeit

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
Re: PFMEA Recommended Actions

Without more details it's impossible to tell whether what the supplier did or proposed should be considered acceptable. In what context did you receive the PFMEA? Are the problems recent? What makes you feel the RPN should have been reduced? Are you sure the problem(s) is/are preventable?
One of their products failed at our customer location. Something that we could not prevent or inspect due to the nature of the material. Then we had 2 more failures here at our facility, that we luckily caught, but then a 4th at the same customer location. All 4 failures affected 2 product lines 3 different sizes.

- I received the PFMEA because I requested it because of the non-conformances and that I have to submit it to our Customer as part of the corrective action.

-The problems occured within a 4 week period since end of December.

-That from what I understand from having to submit our PFMEA to Customers who have issued us a corrective action, you want to make sure that what you are implementing or recommend as an action is better then what you have in place and affects your numbers in a good way.

So am I still wrong not accepting daily audits as a recommended action?
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#4
Re: PFMEA Recommended Actions

One of their products failed at our customer location. Something that we could not prevent or inspect due to the nature of the material. Then we had 2 more failures here at our facility, that we luckily caught, but then a 4th at the same customer location. All 4 failures affected 2 product lines 3 different sizes.

- I received the PFMEA because I requested it because of the non-conformances and that I have to submit it to our Customer as part of the corrective action.

-The problems occured within a 4 week period since end of December.

-That from what I understand from having to submit our PFMEA to Customers who have issued us a corrective action, you want to make sure that what you are implementing or recommend as an action is better then what you have in place and affects your numbers in a good way.

So am I still wrong not accepting daily audits as a recommended action?
I didn't say I thought you were wrong; I just wanted more information. :D

It certainly seems from here that the supplier might not be taking the thing too seriously, and what would probably be best at this point is actually speaking with them and telling them what you're concerned about, and that you'd like to see more evidence of preventive action. Offer to help in that direction, rather than assuming a punitive, dictatorial posture.
 

try2makeit

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
Re: PFMEA Recommended Actions

I didn't say I thought you were wrong; I just wanted more information. :D

It certainly seems from here that the supplier might not be taking the thing too seriously, and what would probably be best at this point is actually speaking with them and telling them what you're concerned about, and that you'd like to see more evidence of preventive action. Offer to help in that direction, rather than assuming a punitive, dictatorial posture.
Oh I wouldn't be a Dictator. I have dealt with such personalities over the years myself and hated it. And yes taking the preventative action route is certainly a good way.

Thank you! :)
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#6
Hi all,

I have received a PFMEA from one of our Suppliers with whom we had some product issues with.

In reviewing the PFMEA the issues that have happened were all answered as daily audit in the recommended actions column.

I totally disagree with this. It did not decrease the R.P.N and a daily audit does not prevent any of the failures. I can go and audit our plant every day and once I'm done auditing, something could happen.

However I will accept a daily audit if they implemented something that will prevent the failures.

Am I am wrong here?

Thanks for your help.
I think that if RPN was not decreased, the FMEA method was ineffective.
Another thing to explore is if the supplier has competence and skill to do FMEA.:bigwave:
 
M

Mr.Happy

#7
Hi,
rather than asking for an update of the PFMEA you could ask your supplier for an 8D Report and/or a 5-Why report, than he later can update his PFMEA.

Cheers,
Mr.Happy
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#8
Hi,
rather than asking for an update of the PFMEA you could ask your supplier for an 8D Report and/or a 5-Why report, than he later can update his PFMEA.

Cheers,
Mr.Happy
I would agree with this. Stop working on the paper and start working on the problem. I think the key is whether the problem can actually be solved and what it would take. You'll need to work WITH your supplier to achieve a good result. Good luck.
 

try2makeit

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
I think that if RPN was not decreased, the FMEA method was ineffective.
Another thing to explore is if the supplier has competence and skill to do FMEA.:bigwave:
I totally agree with you on the RPN. As to the competence and skill, I am sure they are, but I believe in the whole scheme of things we are not one of their bigger customers and as such we probably will wind up having to accept what they are giving us, regardless that our Customer is a major supplier to the biggens. So I will as I have told Jim go down the preventative path and see where it leads me. Even if nothing comes out of it, when I submit it all to our Customer he will see that I asked for different ways and see if we can do something here that will save me from anymore headaches.

Thanks!!
 

try2makeit

Quite Involved in Discussions
#10
Hi,
rather than asking for an update of the PFMEA you could ask your supplier for an 8D Report and/or a 5-Why report, than he later can update his PFMEA.

Cheers,
Mr.Happy
I have done all of that. I received their 8-D and the root cause given was not even addressed in the PFMEA. So I took that step and asked for a preventative action on the root cause in the PFMEA. Hopefully this will get me somewhere.

Thanks!
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
K PFMEA (Process FMEA) - Can be common for 3000 products? FMEA and Control Plans 2
N In-Process Production Test Stations in PFMEA (Process FMEA) FMEA and Control Plans 18
R Is PFMEA (Process FMEA) for OEM sufficient to address Risk? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 7
Z Pass-Though Characteristics in PFMEA (Process FMEA) FMEA and Control Plans 2
R PFMEA (process FMEA) for Incoming Material stage FMEA and Control Plans 7
P PFMEA (Process FMEA) Recommended Actions help FMEA and Control Plans 9
G Very Basic PFMEA (Process FMEA) Guidelines FMEA and Control Plans 17
M PFMEA (Process FMEA) - What is the best approach? FMEA and Control Plans 14
M PFMEA (Process FMEA) for Attribute Data Inspection Process FMEA and Control Plans 2
B Process FMEA (PFMEA) Same Multiple Causes for Different Effects FMEA and Control Plans 6
M Changing PFMEA (Process FMEA) RPN Values based on a Rejection FMEA and Control Plans 5
Q Using a Custom Process FMEA (PFMEA) Form FMEA and Control Plans 4
D PFMEA (Process FMEA) Process and Rankings (S-O-D) Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 8
A PFMEA (Process FMEA) Detection Rating - Actions to Reduce RPN FMEA and Control Plans 3
L PFMEA (Process FMEA) Forms - Dyadem FMEA Software Products FMEA and Control Plans 5
L Rotational Molding and Machining PFMEA (Process FMEA) - Plastics - example wanted FMEA and Control Plans 6
Chennaiite PFMEA (Process FMEA) for Vehicle Assembly wanted FMEA and Control Plans 4
H How to perform interesting PFMEA (Process FMEA) Training Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 6
M PFMEA (Process FMEA - Potential Causes and Failure) - Operator's Role FMEA and Control Plans 11
5 Changes to Control Plans or PFMEA's (Process FMEA) FMEA and Control Plans 6
P PFMEA (Process FMEA) Acceptable Effectivity Rate for Reoccurances of Issues FMEA and Control Plans 1
T DFMEA (Design FMEA) - We already have a PFMEA (Process FMEA) FMEA and Control Plans 5
D Laser Welding PFMEA (Process FMEA) - Metal FMEA and Control Plans 14
Casana Detection level in PFMEA (Process FMEA) - Bulk Fluids FMEA and Control Plans 10
P Problem with "failure mode? interpretation in PFMEA (Process FMEA) FMEA and Control Plans 8
R Addressing Inspection in PFMEA (Process FMEA) FMEA and Control Plans 2
S Pfmea (Process FMEA) at Process Audit FMEA and Control Plans 4
J When to Update PFMEA (Process FMEA) - Rejection is found at the customer FMEA and Control Plans 12
V Integrating the FMEA process with problem investigation/RCA process and PFMEA FMEA and Control Plans 4
C DFMEA (Design FMEA) and PFMEA (Process FMEA) - Who should lead? FMEA and Control Plans 14
C PFMEA (Process FMEA) Detection Scale - Aerospace engine components FMEA and Control Plans 4
H How to Make PFMEA (Process FMEA) from the beginning to the end FMEA and Control Plans 4
H Corrective Action: When to update the Process FMEA (PFMEA) FMEA and Control Plans 15
M Process FMEA (PFMEA) Assumptions Regarding Causes Identification FMEA and Control Plans 6
M Process FMEA (PFMEA) for D.C. Welding of Sheet Metal Parts - Electrode Material FMEA and Control Plans 1
N How to Calculate RPN in Design FMEA (DFMEA) vs. Process FMEA (PFMEA) FMEA and Control Plans 9
J When to update a PFMEA (Process FMEA) FMEA and Control Plans 17
S Detection Criteria Examples - PFMEA (Process FMEA) - Emergency Safety Fixtures FMEA and Control Plans 2
E PFMEA (Process FMEA) Class Symbols FMEA and Control Plans 6
Kales Veggie Informational How to develop a Control Plan from a PFMEA (Process FMEA) FMEA and Control Plans 61
kedarg6500 Supplier PFMEA (Process FMEA) Audit Form FMEA and Control Plans 4
Y Process FMEA (PFMEA) vs. Equipment FMEA (EFMEA) Differences FMEA and Control Plans 15
J Updating a PFMEA (Process FMEA) after a Process Failure FMEA and Control Plans 3
J The real Link between a PFMEA (Process FMEA) and the Control Plan FMEA and Control Plans 19
W Actual examples of FMEA (DFMEA, PFMEA) for Car Assembly Process IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
L PFMEA (Process FMEA) issue about lower RPN - AIAG 3rd edition page 55 FMEA and Control Plans 13
M Connections between PFMEA (Process FMEA) and the Control Plan. FMEA and Control Plans 20
M PFMEA Severity - What is Process FMEA Severity estimation based on? FMEA and Control Plans 77
K Change in Occurrence for Low Volume Assembly Process FMEA (PFMEA) FMEA and Control Plans 8
M Include Risk of Rework in a PFMEA (Process FMEA)? FMEA and Control Plans 5

Similar threads

Top Bottom