D
Don Winton
Crosby vs. Deming
I thought the following was interesting.
-------Snip-------
From: Hakan Sodersved
To: DEN Disc List
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:07:32 +0100
Subj: Going Crosby vrs Going Deming
I see Crosby as a natural 1st step to quality from the curriculums that trade and technical universities had during the 60:ies and 70:ies, with some exceptions.
At the Technical University I spent my 5 years in 1966 to 1971 we had a thin 0.7 cm book called The Psychology of Worklife, and we disliked that subject and correspondingly the lecturer. This was the only touch of Profound Knowledge/psychology we were offered. I wonder how many youngsters 18-25 are interested in that type of psychological learning. It sure was much different from the method of Mt. Edgcumbe School in Sitka, Alaska in the 90:ies.
The knowledge given in economics was not far better at the technical university. Even at the end of the 80:ies in my industrial career I was regarded a specialist being able to calculate costs of products in mass production. Cost of quality was not included then either, it could not simply be measured due lack of quality cost data and inaccuracy and bias of sampling in the economical systems. A natural step would have been to go for Crosby, because more and more people were interested in economical figures of their products and processes. But due to a strong central quality institute, Deming was dominating.
To introduce something in a large organisation you must have broad support for the new thing. It is easier for a broad mass with the Crosby concept than the Deming philosophy. But the journey will take a longer time.
But for me personally, when I "detected Deming" in 1989, it was an excellent timing. It was far more offensive and complete than the fresh ISO9000. It gave light to all my questions about the Japanese mystery of success. It also gave support for many results of my personal research "on the production floor". My big problem in the beginning of the 80:ies was a dramatic unacceptable increase in production costs, year by year. This kind of "dynamite knowledge" is difficult to deploy if you have an offside position in an organisation. It is a rare chance for an internal person with appropriate authority and profound knowledge to get the opportunity to gather facts and data like Dr. Deming has been able to during his trips.
The Deming philosophy deals with senses of the whole brain - not just logistics and economics. You include ethics, empathy, feelings, beliefs, values, logic, system frequencies of interaction. The Symphony Orchestra is a very good socio-physical-technical model (I exclude the musical styles and preferences). Crosby also has a lot of ethical values in his approach and he often speaks the language of the top.
I always recommend Deming-what else-but I try to understand why the Crosby step might be a necessary as an intermediate step. The two routes may have orders of difference in quality magnitude. Who could measure?
https://www.expira.se
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Thoughts, Anyone?
Regards,
Don
I thought the following was interesting.
-------Snip-------
From: Hakan Sodersved
To: DEN Disc List
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:07:32 +0100
Subj: Going Crosby vrs Going Deming
I see Crosby as a natural 1st step to quality from the curriculums that trade and technical universities had during the 60:ies and 70:ies, with some exceptions.
At the Technical University I spent my 5 years in 1966 to 1971 we had a thin 0.7 cm book called The Psychology of Worklife, and we disliked that subject and correspondingly the lecturer. This was the only touch of Profound Knowledge/psychology we were offered. I wonder how many youngsters 18-25 are interested in that type of psychological learning. It sure was much different from the method of Mt. Edgcumbe School in Sitka, Alaska in the 90:ies.
The knowledge given in economics was not far better at the technical university. Even at the end of the 80:ies in my industrial career I was regarded a specialist being able to calculate costs of products in mass production. Cost of quality was not included then either, it could not simply be measured due lack of quality cost data and inaccuracy and bias of sampling in the economical systems. A natural step would have been to go for Crosby, because more and more people were interested in economical figures of their products and processes. But due to a strong central quality institute, Deming was dominating.
To introduce something in a large organisation you must have broad support for the new thing. It is easier for a broad mass with the Crosby concept than the Deming philosophy. But the journey will take a longer time.
But for me personally, when I "detected Deming" in 1989, it was an excellent timing. It was far more offensive and complete than the fresh ISO9000. It gave light to all my questions about the Japanese mystery of success. It also gave support for many results of my personal research "on the production floor". My big problem in the beginning of the 80:ies was a dramatic unacceptable increase in production costs, year by year. This kind of "dynamite knowledge" is difficult to deploy if you have an offside position in an organisation. It is a rare chance for an internal person with appropriate authority and profound knowledge to get the opportunity to gather facts and data like Dr. Deming has been able to during his trips.
The Deming philosophy deals with senses of the whole brain - not just logistics and economics. You include ethics, empathy, feelings, beliefs, values, logic, system frequencies of interaction. The Symphony Orchestra is a very good socio-physical-technical model (I exclude the musical styles and preferences). Crosby also has a lot of ethical values in his approach and he often speaks the language of the top.
I always recommend Deming-what else-but I try to understand why the Crosby step might be a necessary as an intermediate step. The two routes may have orders of difference in quality magnitude. Who could measure?
https://www.expira.se
-------End Snip-------
Thoughts, Anyone?
Regards,
Don