Placed in the position of implementing ISO 9001:2000 but have no formal training

[Underdog - 2004]

in the position of implementing ISO 9001:2000..... register only a part of our business. That being aerospace/defense. 75% of our commercial business is highly competitive and is protected by security agreements....

Why do you have to be ISO9000? Are your customers (the 25% aerospace/defense) imposing it on you.

If not, you have options, if so contact some third party auditors and ask them how they would handle the security issues. Put the burden on them to assure you.

Or, are your customers (the 75%) imposing it on you. If so, then their eyes are open and the burden is still on the third party auditors to provide assurances.

 

[WALLACE]

Hokieman,
I empathize with your situation yet, I have less sympathy with your situation, if you were made aware of the genesis of your dilemma and have just went with the flow.
All too often we hear this situation at the Cove and, whilst many at the Cove are willing to give a leg up, it's clear that some are either, coerced or unwittingly believe they are up for the challenge of adopting, adapting and implementing an international standard for BMS.
I have to ask, why in the first place, has your employer loaded you with this task? It's very clear from the offset that your senior management have decided to adopt and adapt the ISO9001 for all the wrong reasons.
Hokieman, start off the way you wish to proceed, if you don't, you'll be placing yourself in an embarrassingly unprofessional position.
Talk to your senior management and ask (Demand) for a training commitment regarding your knowledge base re- ISO and Business management systems.
Build your systems knowledge on the right foundation of sound processes and you'll do OK.
Good luck.
Wallace.

 

[hokieman]

Our business, while not in any formal fashion, is percieved to be two-sided by mgmt. Those two percieved sides are (1) Commercial/Industrial and (2) Aerospace/Defense. 75% of our business on the commercial side is done with us by 3 major customers. On the defense side, one customer generates 60% of our business. It is hard to walk up to the man that owns the business and tell him it's going to be your way or else. I might be the one getting the "else" :mg: Management looks at ISO as something the Defense customers are forcing upon him. While he is very nice and has poured his heart and soul into the business for many years(including 2.5M in capital expenditures this year alone) he looks at it as a smack in the face. His thinking is that our defense customers(who are ISO registered and also a huge employer) sends us orders full of mistakes and loopholes that require verification in most cases. They send us prints without the proper revisions attached etc...He is not seeing it work for them so he very skeptical. He is a very good man and will send me to a lead auditor course before the end of the year He just has not seen an advantage as of yet!. Top mgmt here is a man and his son. He has approx. 15M invested in the business and literally started out with himself. He has an uncanny business savvy ! He is just set in his ways!

 

[qualitygoddess - 2010]

ISO for Samll Business

Welcome to the Cove. I highly recommend an ISO book especially for small business -- ISO 9001:2000 for Small and Medium Businesses by Herbert Monnich. It's a really easy read. And I was an "ISO pro" when I picked it up from ASQ press.

You should be able to contact your local chapter of ASQ (ww.asq.org) and get a list of local offerings for ISO 9001 classes. You might want to go to two types of classes -- a one-two day overview, and then an internal auditor course (there are ones that are just a couple of days and teach you basic auditing and then there is the 5 day lead auditor course). Or you could try some of the on-line webinars/seminars from ASQ. These on-line classes give you the quick overview and would get you ready for the more rigorous week long lead auditor course.

Another source for help is your local Manufacturing Extension Partnership (MEP). It's funded by NIST. Here's the website for Virgina. http://www.vpmep.org/

My only piece of advice regarding going to a class: ask who is teaching it, and ask for references or feedback on that particular instructor. I don't want to offend anyone, but many of these classes are taught by experienced auditors, but these same people are not the best trainers/facilitators! For example, I once sat through a class where the instructor told all kinds of interesting audit stories, and we didn't do the practice exercises. Everyone suffered when it was time to take the exam...........



Good luck, keep posting your questions.

--Jodi

 

[Caster]

I'll suggest a zero cost training idea.

Just read, read, read, the ISO standard itself.

Then search this site when you need ideas.

For example, when you wonder what to do about "training effectiveness" you will find at least a dozen good ideas that you can develop your own ideas from.

A search of this site makes you an expert - thanks to Marc and the Covers!

I have been reading the standard since 1987 and still find new ideas and interpretations.

Also as has been suggested, to reduce frustration you need to go on an all out Guerrilla Campaign to convert the boss to ISO benefits.

You say he has uncanny business sense. Once he gets over the fact that this is being forced down his throat he may start to discover all kinds of good ideas.

It is in your best interst to help him with this journey of discovery.

Send HIM to ISO awareness

Insist that he be involved in a gap analysis to see where his business could be improved

Seek out your State quality award group and ask them to set up a CEO to CEO breakfast. If he talks to a passionate CEO who can demonstrate benefits it will be a cake walk from then

Every time a problem costs him money, show him the ISO clause that would <possibly> have prevented the mistake

Do not do it yourself. Insist on a steering committe meeting weekly led by HIM and all top managers. Bring awarenss training to them. Make them do a gap analysis. Make them write procedures and take ownership.

Chances are this won't happen. No worries, you can still develop a World Class system based on the ideas in the Cove. Whether people follow it and whether it is effective is up to HIM at the end of the day. But try real hard to sell him. It is all good stuff.

 

[hokieman]

Thanks to everybody! I'm reading all of the posts with the greatest of interest so keep'em coming!!!

 

[Bill Pflanz]

Management looks at ISO as something the Defense customers are forcing upon him. While he is very nice and has poured his heart and soul into the business for many years(including 2.5M in capital expenditures this year alone) he looks at it as a smack in the face. His thinking is that our defense customers(who are ISO registered and also a huge employer) sends us orders full of mistakes and loopholes that require verification in most cases.

Hokieman,

Although your customers may not have a solid ISO system in place, I would recommend that you give their quality manager a call and ask if you can visit them to see their quality system. They want you to get certified so they should be willing to show you how they did it. At least you will see what is in their quality and procedure manuals, how they addressed certain ISO issues etc. Normally quality managers are willing to help each other.

It will also give you and opportunity to look at what they have written in their policies and procedures about what they expect from their suppliers. There appears to be a gap between you and your customers and you can use the ISO effort to close it. That alone may help sell the ISO concept to management if you are successful.

Bill Pflanz

 

[mshell]

The best advice that I can offer is to keep visiting the cove and learning from the experienced people that offer advice/assistance.

Somewhere in one of the posts is a list of free ISO training materials. It would help to get you started but you should definitely attend some sort of ISO training course as soon as possible.

Above all, remember that this is your system and you should keep it simple. ISO is business common sense!!!

I have a book called The Memory Jogger 9000/2000 which is a pocket guide to implementing ISO. I have found it to be very helpful. The website is http://www.goalqpc.com

 

[Ingeniero1]

Hokieman,

I attended a two-day course (QAI's for internal auditors) read a book (BSI's "The Route to Registration") and yes, they were somewhat helpful.

Then, I found 'the Cove'

At the risk of sounding like a broken record*, I will say reading the topics posted in 'the Cove', and posting the questions I had, was, without a doubt, the most helpful by a very wide margin. I can't remember how many questions I asked, but I know it was several dozen. The knowledgeable and wonderful contributors here answered them promptly, graciously, and correctly. Along the way, in addition to the answers, they also provided valuable advice.

The result was than in less than a year, our company (about 85 employees), went from making the decision to register, starting from scratch (no manual, no procedures...) to registration with no major or minor non-conformances.

Alex

*Remember 'records'? Grooved vinyl discs with music encoded in the grooves, which when scratched would cause the needle to jump back and reply the same portion over and over?

 

[Carl Keller]

I would agree you need some amount of training to be comfortable with ISO, HOWEVER

DO NOT spend too much money on it! A basic course will suffice. Try your local ASQ section. Most of the courses are overrated anyway. You just need a comfort level.

You are obviously an intelligent person. You can read and interpret the ISO standard just as easily as anyone else. Read the standard and ask yourself this question for each element: "what evidence do I have to show that we meet this requirement?" If you have documentation for it, move on. If not, work it into your system.

I have two suggestions concerning your confidentiality dilemmma.

1. Have sample orders and data prepared ahead of time that have been "censored" blacked out names/addresses/critical info but showing enough data to prove you are performing according to procedure.

2. Show the forms with "mock" information and explain in detail how each section is completed.

If you need help, call or e-mail me, I will be more than happy to help.

It really isn't that big of a deal, you are going to pass as long as you pay the registrars bill, so RELAX.

Carl-