Planning vs. Quality Buyoff - AS9100

paultyler

Involved In Discussions
#1
I need some help with an issue. Let me give some back ground first on our process.

In the company I work we use a work order system to control the process of making parts (aerospace industry). The work order has all the planning sequences included to provide traceability of the entire process of making the part. Once the planning is completed per the customer requirements and documented on the work order then someone approves the planning as documented.

However, the issue is that the same person that does the planning is approving the planning. Is this or will this be a concern during an AS 9100 audit?
 
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howste

Thaumaturge
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#2
Re: Planning vs Quality Buyoff

There is nothing in AS9100 specifically prohibiting this. Although I believe it's always a good idea to have someone else doublecheck my work. You may expect to be questioned about it, so be prepared to show how you meet requirements if asked.

The relevant AS9100 requirements I see are these:

The requirement in 4.2.3 is that the organization must determine (and document in a procedure) the controls needed to "approve documents for adequacy prior to issue." It doesn't say who should approve them.

Clause 5.5.1 says that responsibilities and authorities must be defined and communicated. This includes who has authority to approve planning documents.

Clause 6.2.1 requires that personnel performing work affecting product quality must be competent based on education, training, skills, and/or experience. This includes personnel generating and approving planning. See also 6.2.2.

Clause 7.5.1.1 says that production operations have to be carried out in accordance with "approved data" but again it doesn't say who should approve it (see 5.5.1).
 

paultyler

Involved In Discussions
#3
Re: Planning vs Quality Buyoff

Thanks for the help. I kinda figured that the standard didn't require some one else to check the planning. I read and read it and couldn't find anything. However, I was curious if an auditor might question it. If anyone has ever experience this, what was the outcome? Did an auditor note this as a non-conformance or observation?

I will be going through my first AS9100 audit as a quality manager in Sept. I have been through ISO type audits and HACCP audits before, but this my first AS9100.
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
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#4
Re: Planning vs Quality Buyoff

My :2cents:. Even though there is no specific requirement in AS9100, it is good business practice to have a Checker (QA) to make sure that all of the Customer's Quality Requirements are flowed down to the floor level.

Take for a example: Sikorsky Aircraft (Part of UTC) have hardware that is identified as "Flight Safety Hardware" and the planning once generated by the organization, needs to be approved by Sikorsky and then it is "Frozen." Any changes will have to be submitted to Sikorsky for approval.

Does the Planner really understand the meaning of Flight Safety (or any other quality requirement flow down), would be one question.

It has been a few years since I was involved with Sikorsky and maybe those requirements have changed.

This is just my opinion.
 
Last edited:
D

domingue

#5
Re: Planning vs Quality Buyoff

You should be ok. As long as your documentation states who has the authority to do the checking, and you have some objective evidence that that person has the knowledge/expertise/training to do it, then I don't see any problem with it. At my last job, I made it through an AS9100 audit with similar procedures (not with Work Orders specifically, but with other documents).

As howste mentioned though, having someone else check your work is usually a good policy, even if it's not required.
 

Stijloor

Leader
Super Moderator
#6
Re: Planning vs Quality Buyoff

My :2cents:. Even though there is no specific requirement in AS9100, it is good business practice to have a Checker (QA) to make sure that all of the Customer's Quality Requirements are flowed down to the floor level.

Take for a example: Sikorsky Aircraft (Part of UTC) have hardware that is identified as "Flight Safety Hardware" and the planning once generated by the organization, needs to be approved by Sikorsky and then it is "Frozen." Any changes will have to be submitted to Sikorsky for approval.

Does the Planner really understand the meaning of Flight Safety, would be one question.

It has been a few years since I was involved with Sikorsky and maybe those requirements have changed.

This is just my opinion.
Coury,

Are you referring to this document from UTC?

Stijloor.
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Trusted Information Resource
#7
Re: Planning vs Quality Buyoff

Coury,

Are you referring to this document from UTC?

Stijloor.
That is one of them. Basically I was using them as an example, nothing more. However, these will be flowed down to any supplier involved in UTC Corporation. This just supports my :2cents: in regards to having a checker (QA) review planning, even though AS9100 isn't specific about that.

Thanks for the Link Stijloor.
 
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