Positive Control of Non Conforming Material at Machines

J

Jane27

#1
My company manufactures metal parts for automotive and aerospace. The parts are about the size of a hockey puck. Currently operators place bad parts into red plastic scrap bins. They are supposed to paint each bad part with red dykem, but this doesn't always happen. As the result of this it is not uncommon for a bad part gets mixed in with good parts. I would like to implement locked scrap containers that only allow the operator to place the part in. I have seen one company that did this using Hazmat containers. They drilled 5 x 5 holes in the lid, and stenciled SCRAP on the bins. The problem I have with this, is that I don't like the fact that you can't see what is being rejected. I am wondering if any one has seen other types of containers/ baskets/ cages being used to contain scrap at the machine. A PVC coated cage sounds interesting, because fallout would be visible (good indicator as to how job is running). Can't find a product that is designed for this purpose. Would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks :D
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#2
You really need to find out why the parts are getting mixed. My guess would be it is due to a brain cramp in which the operator puts the part in the wrong bin -- been there and done it. IF that is the case, then locked bins would not really prevent the mixing. If the mixing is after the parts are in bins, then a locked container would certainly help prevent mixing. Any chance you can stop making "scrap" in the first place?
 
#3
My company manufactures metal parts for automotive and aerospace. The parts are about the size of a hockey puck. Currently operators place bad parts into red plastic scrap bins. They are supposed to paint each bad part with red dykem, but this doesn't always happen. As the result of this it is not uncommon for a bad part gets mixed in with good parts. I would like to implement locked scrap containers that only allow the operator to place the part in. I have seen one company that did this using Hazmat containers. They drilled 5 x 5 holes in the lid, and stenciled SCRAP on the bins. The problem I have with this, is that I don't like the fact that you can't see what is being rejected. I am wondering if any one has seen other types of containers/ baskets/ cages being used to contain scrap at the machine. A PVC coated cage sounds interesting, because fallout would be visible (good indicator as to how job is running). Can't find a product that is designed for this purpose. Would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks :D
I thought to suggest you a glass container with a metal lid and provision of locking:tg:

Try thick metal wire mesh container with metal lid with locking system.Select the mesh size as per your product size.So,you see from out side but the parts don't come out.:)
 
S

silentrunning

#4
I'm not sure what your processes are, but we manufacture springs and the machine sorts and records the long, good and short springs. We then weigh count the scrap springs to match the machine counter. This prevents operators from "sweetening" their scrap ratio by dumping some bad parts in with the good. If your machines automatically sort the product, you could try something similiar. If not I would go for a full blown Corrective Action and find the Root Cause. Having bad parts get to a customer can be disasterous.
 
S

sitapaty

#5
Your original method of placing NC parts in a red box is perfectly allright.What you are facing is crisis of indescipline among your work force.Take your work force to a class room and motivate them to segregate NC parts in a dedicated box.
There is no substitute for decipline.
-SITAPATY
 
Last edited by a moderator:
#6
In automotive, this is known as "error proofing". A common method is to have a container that the operator cannot retrieve parts from, similar to a mail box. Only those authorized have keys to the box, such as quality engineers or quality managers.

In aerospace there is the very stringent requirement that once something has been dispositioned as scrap, it need to be permanently marked or positively controlled until it is rendered unusable. Painting it red does not qualify as it is not permanent. It is common to destroy a key feature, such as with a saw, hammer, or grinder.

It is critical, in either case, that you completely prevent any of this bad (or even questionable) material out of the supply chain. You have to do it, or you are not permitted in the game.
 
S

sitapaty

#7
Permanent deforming a rejected part is done after the final decision by the empowered salvage committee.Till then a foolproof segregation method has to be followed.We con't distroy the component at the spot of production.
SITAPATY
 
B

bbarbee

#8
I had a system when I was in automotive where the scrap bins were attached to locking reject chutes attached to the machine frame. When a bad part was detected, the work station would release it and unlock the reject chute. A red light would activate at the station. The operator would confirm the reject on the machine, then put the part in the chute. When the part crossed a thru-beam into the bin, the door to the chute would lock again and the machine would operate.

It's a shame we have to go to these lengths to make people put stuff in the right bins, but there you go. This system, while complicated, worked very well. The team lead was allowed to get bad parts from the bin to take them to the rework loop, but regular operators didn't have access to remove parts.
 
J

Jane27

#9
I thought to suggest you a glass container with a metal lid and provision of locking:tg:

Try thick metal wire mesh container with metal lid with locking system.Select the mesh size as per your product size.So,you see from out side but the parts don't come out.:)

Yes, actually have just gotten quotes for red PVC coated cage tops that fit like shoe box lids onton our existing scrap containers. The lids are locked onto the scrap bins and have slots that only alow parts to be placed in. Just have not quite thought thru how operators will (or wont) identify what the cause of reject was/ when scrap will be collected/ etc. Thanks for your comments.:D
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
A Positive Control of in-process nonconforming parts until rendered physically unusable Nonconformance and Corrective Action 3
H Positive LAL while sterility and bio burden is confirming CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 3
R Opportunity For Improvement vs Opportunity (Positive Risk) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 18
Sidney Vianna IAQG SCMH explains "positive risk"..........but does it? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
Ed Panek User Feedback both negative and positive and acting upon those metrics 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 4
Ed Panek Requirement to track and trend positive feedback from customers ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 12
S Which non Salmonella organisms show positive in Wellcolex? Test kit ? US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 1
G Positive Impacts in regards to ISO 14001 Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 4
K Customer Audit - Just a positive rant really General Auditing Discussions 2
D Attribute Agreement Analysis - MSA - False Negative/Positive IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
K More Positive Internal Auditing - Would This Work? Internal Auditing 8
T Is Positive Recall for in-process Product allowed in AS9100 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
J Webinar: Positive Changes in Workplace Culture The Reading Room 0
P Tips on how to test air and improve air quality - What is a Positive Air? Food Safety Food Safety - ISO 22000, HACCP (21 CFR 120) 3
B Are Parts in a Positive Recall w/o Customer Complaint considered as External PPM? Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 6
J Positive Corrective Action - 3 parts found out of 20,000 pcs 9 months after delivery Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 33
Wes Bucey How about something positive and uplifting? Career and Occupation Discussions 2
A Is the normal Cpk calculation applicable for data with positive & negative values? Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 4
K What does "positive-recall procedures" mean? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 8
A Root Cause Analysis - Whether one can do RCA for Positive Findings Problem Solving, Root Cause Fault and Failure Analysis 19
A Positive Performance Indicator (PPI) for Energy/Utilities organization ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
S Satisfaction scales - positive to negative or negative to positive Benchmarking 6
Marc Belkin is paying for positive Web reviews After Work and Weekend Discussion Topics 7
R Is positive recall acceptable under ISO/TS 16949 : 2002 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
J Do you write positive comments in audit reports General Auditing Discussions 74
W I think there needs to be more emphasis on the positive value of controls General Auditing Discussions 0
S ISO 26000 standard on Social Responsibility reaches positive turning point World News 4
H Positive Recall - How it should work in a small job shop - 7.4.3 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
I ISO 9001:2000 Windfall - Yes, ISO 9001:2000 has had a very positive impact ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
A I'm positive - Two atoms are walking down the sidewalk Funny Stuff - Jokes and Humour 1
Marc What has the ASQ done for you? ('Positive' posts ONLY) ASQ, ANAB, UKAS, IAF, IRCA, Exemplar Global and Related Organizations 16
M Where did 4.10.2.3 - Positive Recall - At Risk - go? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 14
P Definition Positive (Immediate) Recall - The ability to trace items forward and backward Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 14
A Positive Trend - Rejections and Customer Complaints - What to do? Customer Complaints 6
D ISO Urgent Release Issue - Positive Recall ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
V Is Positive Recall applicable in ISO 9000:2000? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
V Does preventive maintenance have any positive effect on smart transmitters? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
C Control Plan APQP and PPAP 4
D Control of Records ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 7
M Document Control - Applying Suitable Identification to Obsolete Documents ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 5
L Control of Documents ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 28
S Control plan for "highly automated processes" FMEA and Control Plans 3
D Document Control Question involving DocuSign US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 6
R SCORING OF MILLER MARITAL LOCUS OF CONTROL SCALE Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 2
M Document Control ISO and FDA ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 7
M Design Control Procedure Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 4
D 8.5.1.2 Validation and control of special processes requirements for Heat Treat External Processor AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
R Humane Pest Control Food Safety - ISO 22000, HACCP (21 CFR 120) 1
B 8.5.1.1 Control Plan - question audit NC IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
B QM Plan vs Control Plan IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3

Similar threads

Top Bottom