Possibility of certifying to IMS (ISO 9001, ISO 14001 & OHSAS 18001)

[Sidney Vianna]

even if it makes me more $$

As I said. Treat your service as a commodity and you will see your profit margins erode very quickly. The CB community, for the most part, seem unable to learn from their self-defeating behavior.

 

[Randy]

As I said. Treat your service as a commodity and you will see your profit margins erode very quickly. The CB community, for the most part, seem unable to learn from their self-defeating behavior.

Do you really think that Sid? (A question, not a slam)

Isn't the service we provide just another commodity that needs to be packaged, homoginized, pasturized and packaged in order to please and attract our customer base, limited by the restrictions we have to operate under that help to insure the validity of it?

Couldn't the erosion of profit margins also be based on tunoptic management styles coupled with a stuffed shirt, single minded, unimaginative industry?

This is kinda , but we seem to have a competitor newbie in the fold now.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Do you really think that Sid? (A question, not a slam)

Randy, ISO 9000 and all other "derivatives" (perilous word these days) has been seriously damaged due to the way it has been devalued over the years. In order to make it easier to sell, ISO 9000 has been "dumbed down". Packaged, repackaged, canned, trivialized ad nauseum. And the CB community wasted no time following suit. Most "business development" people working for CB's have no idea of the complexity of the service they offer, much less knowledge of management systems. And the only way forward for them is to offer discounts, reduced days, "guaranteed certification" and all the other silly, self defeating sales approaches.

Very few people and organizations are upholding acceptable standards in this business.

Sustainability is not assured.

 

[Randy]

Most "business development" people working for CB's have no idea of the complexity of the service they offer, much less knowledge of management systems. And the only way forward for them is to offer discounts, reduced days, "guaranteed certification" and all the other silly, self defeating sales approaches.

No argument from me at all here. I see the same thing in my area of the industry and I have heard the same from others who do what I/we do and work for our "competition". The "you really need this" when actually they dont. You know what I mean?

 

[DMorin]

Most "business development" people working for CB's have no idea of the complexity of the service they offer, much less knowledge of management systems. And the only way forward for them is to offer discounts, reduced days, "guaranteed certification" and all the other silly, self defeating sales approaches.

hhhhmmm can't help but feel like this is directed towards me considering that I was labeled as the "newbie competitor" and that this latest discussion resulted from my addition about a reduction in time when a company is being seen for all three standards. So, if ANAB and other Accreditation Bodies recognizes and allows for such reductions because they are aware of the repetitive aspects of the audit when auditing all three standards, CB's should still not apply audit day reductions? I don't believe that I've ever stated come to my company because I will offer you discounts, less days and "guaranteed certification"(not applying that anyone said I did, but I do feel categorized). Last time I checked this website was for anyone in the quality realm so, what does it really matter what Registrar I work for or if I am a competitor? The discussions about reducing audit time for combining three standards isn't new to the industry. When I discuss our services with clients I don't harp on price or discounts. I talk about my company, the standard, our auditors' experience and the value added audits that we perform.

The fact of the matter is that some companies do believe that ISO certification is a commodity and are simply looking for "ISO wallpaper" for the cheapest quote and less amount of days. These are companies I do not go after or attract. I have lost companies due to price differences as little as $100 over a 3 year period or auditing for a 0.5 day more. Some businesses are just looking to buy the cert. My job is to educate them about the ISO process and the benefits a true ISO Management system can bring to their company. The savings from a value added audit and a well implemented management system will far surpass the cost of certification. I truly believe that ISO certification is an investment a company makes for itself and not "ISO Wallpaper".

I'm sure that your statement holds true to others out there and this business practice is done by CB's. I just want to make sure that I wasn't grouped in there.

 

[Randy]

hhhhmmm can't help but feel like this is directed towards me considering that I was labeled as the "newbie competitor" and that this latest discussion resulted from my addition about a reduction in time when a company is being seen for all three standards.

Look pard....It was meant to be nothing more than a "Welcome" to the community here with no other intent. The hope was you'd comfortable and jump in on the deep side and not linger in the kiddie pool....that's it. My friend (Sid) and I have nipped each other playfully for some time now with similar tid-bits. Also the hope was for an understanding that you aren't the only voice in the wilderness that makes up our industry representation here in the Cove (there are a couple of other "competitors" and we're all bud's in here) The term "competition" ain't dirty, in my training courses I even tell people to stay with thier present CB even if it ain't us and I've told folks of training providers other than us if we can't help them. If fact, Sid has provided me with training of sorts on more than one occasion that is offered by his employer. How's that for friendly?

You are more than welcome and please don't read anything into a post that isn't there.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

please don't read anything into a post that isn't there.

One of the secrets for a happy experience at The Cove is not to take anything as a personal attack, UNLESS it is a personal attack, and the attacker will feel the wrath of the ever vigilant moderators.

 

[amanbhai]

I think the discussion is going off track.