Interesting Discussion Potential Issues for Auditing ISO 9001:2015

LUV-d-4UM

Quite Involved in Discussions
#31
I can't tell if this means that you agree or disagree with me. :D

I do like the fact that the CB needs to be notified. It's just that if management is supposed to be taking responsibility, and not simply handing it off to some schmuck (no offense to myself or you or anyone else here!!!!) then you would think they would want to be there during an audit. :2cents:

I'm glad you worked your way through it!!
I respect your opinion. In our case, we had it written that the CB is an interested party. So whatever changes, especially during the initial audit, they have to be notified. Also just because the MR has been eliminated does mean that the MR (if he is the "poor smuck") will lose his job. It just means that now the QMS is owned by everyone and that MR will have some added responsibility. Top Manager still has to have a "hands on approach" .
 
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A

Alienraver

#32
I thought about ditching my manual and almost did until I found out that my auditor is coming not only to audit to 2015 but also to 2008. The reasoning is because if we don't meet 2015 then we have 2008 to fall back on. They recommend keeping 2008 compliant as you transition so you don't risk not having compliance to anything. It's a very fine line to walk to have a QM that is somehow compliant to both standards, but I sure hope I accomplished that.
 

Kronos147

Trusted Information Resource
#33
I thought about ditching my manual and almost did until I found out that my auditor is coming not only to audit to 2015 but also to 2008.
That is not the practice of all of the registrars. Some will come only to assess the transition, and the new system. There is no "fall back," only "move forward."
 
J

JoShmo

#34
I thought about ditching my manual and almost did until I found out that my auditor is coming not only to audit to 2015 but also to 2008. The reasoning is because if we don't meet 2015 then we have 2008 to fall back on. They recommend keeping 2008 compliant as you transition so you don't risk not having compliance to anything. It's a very fine line to walk to have a QM that is somehow compliant to both standards, but I sure hope I accomplished that.
You might want to ditch this register...fast. A "fall back"? If your focus is 2015 there's no "fall back". This register doesn't know what they are talking about. Are they ANAB certified?
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#35
I thought about ditching my manual and almost did until I found out that my auditor is coming not only to audit to 2015 but also to 2008. The reasoning is because if we don't meet 2015 then we have 2008 to fall back on. They recommend keeping 2008 compliant as you transition so you don't risk not having compliance to anything. It's a very fine line to walk to have a QM that is somehow compliant to both standards, but I sure hope I accomplished that.
I don't know how that happens, but it should not happen. ISO 9001:2015 does not require a quality manual - period.

If you don't meet the requirements of 2015, then recommendation to certify to that standard cannot happen, but CBs are not permitted to recertify to 2008 so I don't know how that fallback principle works.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#36
If you don't meet the requirements of 2015, then recommendation to certify to that standard cannot happen, but CBs are not permitted to recertify to 2008 so I don't know how that fallback principle works.
let's imagine the following scenario: A company was certified against ISO 9001:2008 in August 2015. They are undergoing their first annual surveillance audit in August 2016 and they elect to make this surveillance audit also their transition audit to ISO 9001:2015. What happens if they cannot demonstrate full compliance to the latest edition of ISO 9001, but their system still complies with ISO 9001:2008? What if they decide (after a failed attempt to transition) to wait another year?

In the past many CB representatives advised clients not to procrastinate the transition. Why should they be penalized if they attempt an early transition but failed to do so? Why should they lose their existing certificate?
 
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LUV-d-4UM

Quite Involved in Discussions
#37
If they decide to transition to 2015, the worst scenario is that they will get nonconformance which they will have to fix within a certain period of time. When we decide to go this route, we had a management review, internal audit, COTO, risk and internal and external interested parties and their requirements. We sustained minor non-conformance which were addressed and accepted by the auditor. Going forward to 2018, we only had to improve what we implemented for 2015. It is perfectly OK to have 2 recertification- to 2008 this year and come back in 2017 for upgrade to 2015. The client's wish has to be respected by the CB.
 
Y

Yukon

#40
There are no mandatory documents required by ISO9001:2015. The standard requires "documented information" aka quality records.
 
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