PPAP 7 of 8 Cavities after an injection mold die repair?

V

vardar3

#1
Our plastics supplier has an injection mold die that has 8 cavities. They closed off cavity 7 to send it out to repair due to some flash that was occurring. The problem is that they need to PPAP to us, and we need to PPAP to our customer.

Our sales guy mentioned that we can PPAP approve the supplier for 7 of 8 of their cavities. I did not like that idea because running 7 of 8 cavities is not representative of the process, and by signing the PPAP I would be saying that their tool, process and parts meet design intent, which is not true.

I wanted to ask if you guys have been through any PPAP cavity issues similar to this and see how you handled it. Can I PPAP 7 of eight cavities or could that lead to some major problems down the road?
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: PPAP 7 of 8 cavities???

Our plastics supplier has an extrusion mold die that has 8 cavities. They closed off cavity 7 to send it out to repair due to some flash that was occurring. The problem is that they need to PPAP to us, and we need to PPAP to our customer.

Our sales guy mentioned that we can PPAP approve the supplier for 7 of 8 of their cavities. I did not like that idea because running 7 of 8 cavities is not representative of the process, and by signing the PPAP I would be saying that their tool, process and parts meet design intent, which is not true.

I wanted to ask if you guys have been through any PPAP cavity issues similar to this and see how you handled it. Can I PPAP 7 of eight cavities or could that lead to some major problems down the road?
This sort of thing isn't uncommon, although most frequently it comes up when cavities are added. If you have good reason to believe that closing one cavity will have a negative effect on the other seven, you should wait until all eight are functioning, if waiting is an option.

On the other hand, you can consider interim approval for the seven cavities, and then resubmission and full approval only after all eight are running.
 
D

DrM2u

#3
Re: PPAP 7 of 8 Cavities after an extrusion mold die repair?

Can I PPAP 7 of eight cavities or could that lead to some major problems down the road?
To add to Jim's reply:
This is a touch situation and depends no how you look at the tool and at the product. I have been in situations where the customer looked at each cavity individually as a 'tool', or looked at the whole mold as a tool regardless if there were 1 or 8 cavities. In general the second approach is most common. One of it's drawbacks is that you can have an instance where 3 cavities are targeted high, 3 targeted low and 2 targeted in middle of the tolerance range. In such a case your distribution and process capability will look horible, even if each cavity in part might have a very high process capability.

My suggestion is to talk with your customer also, if they are going to see the PPAP data. Otherwise, you can PPAP the whole tool with 7 cavities, taking in consideration the capability of each cavity in part and the mold overall. You can do another full PPAP when the 8th cavity is fixed, or just add the capability of the 8th cavity to the existing PPAP data, depending on how much tool wear you expect on the other cavities up to the new PPAP. The main point is for you to build a high degree of confidence that the parts you receive and ship to your customer meet customer's requirements. How you do that, is your decision. Best wishes!
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#4
Re: PPAP 7 of 8 Cavities after an extrusion mold die repair?

To add to Jim's reply:
This is a touch situation and depends no how you look at the tool and at the product. I have been in situations where the customer looked at each cavity individually as a 'tool', or looked at the whole mold as a tool regardless if there were 1 or 8 cavities. In general the second approach is most common. One of it's drawbacks is that you can have an instance where 3 cavities are targeted high, 3 targeted low and 2 targeted in middle of the tolerance range. In such a case your distribution and process capability will look horible, even if each cavity in part might have a very high process capability.

My suggestion is to talk with your customer also, if they are going to see the PPAP data. Otherwise, you can PPAP the whole tool with 7 cavities, taking in consideration the capability of each cavity in part and the mold overall. You can do another full PPAP when the 8th cavity is fixed, or just add the capability of the 8th cavity to the existing PPAP data, depending on how much tool wear you expect on the other cavities up to the new PPAP. The main point is for you to build a high degree of confidence that the parts you receive and ship to your customer meet customer's requirements. How you do that, is your decision. Best wishes!
The chances are that the customer owns the tooling and is aware of the number of cavities. Adding a cavity after PPAP approval triggers a requirement for notification to the customer, and the customer will decide whether a new PPAP is required.
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#5
Re: PPAP 7 of 8 Cavities after an extrusion mold die repair?

You mentioned that this was an extrusion die. Typically, blocking a die opening will affect the flow in the other dies, thus dimensions also. Did you really mean an injection mold?
 
V

vardar3

#6
Re: PPAP 7 of 8 Cavities after an extrusion mold die repair?

yes, I did mean injection mold die thank you.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#8
You might be making more out of this than there really is. I would PPAP it as is -- 7 cavities. That is the current process. When and if the 8th cavity is repaired or replaced, then I would re-PPAP as a tool and/or process change. Your molder will need to adjust the process to account for the 7 vs. 8 cavities. The re-PPAP would reflect the new process. Good luck.
 
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