PPAP Alternate Equipment

#1
I could not find anything in IATF 16949, so thought I'd ask here.

If a supplier PPAPs off a stamping press, is it ok for the supplier to run the stamping die off another press of the same make, tonnage for future manufacturing?

Andy
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#2
Shouldn't be a problem so long as your original PPAP didn't specify a particular press. This is a good reason not to specify in the control plan which press is to be used.
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#3
The PPAP manual is surprisingly vague on this. It typically focuses on tooling, not equipment. The only time equipment is really mentioned is in the context of moving equipment to another location. When I was in automotive, we only PPAP'd the tooling. We would use a stamping die in any press that was the same size (or larger). We would run an extrusion die in any extruder with the same diameter screw.

If in doubt, you can ask your customer.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#4
The PPAP manual is surprisingly vague on this. It typically focuses on tooling, not equipment. The only time equipment is really mentioned is in the context of moving equipment to another location. When I was in automotive, we only PPAP'd the tooling. We would use a stamping die in any press that was the same size (or larger). We would run an extrusion die in any extruder with the same diameter screw.

If in doubt, you can ask your customer.
This is one of the rare instance where I would advise against asking the customer, assuming that a particular press wasn't cited in the control plan or elsewhere in the original submission. Most of the time, automotive customers will ask for a new submission.
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#5
This is one of the rare instance where I would advise against asking the customer, assuming that a particular press wasn't cited in the control plan or elsewhere in the original submission. Most of the time, automotive customers will ask for a new submission.
I agree. We did not ask the customer in those cases either. However, the option is still on the table if they are risk adverse.
 
#6
Thanks both for your responses. I actually am the customer in this instance. One problem we have in our organization is that we only use IATF 16949 registered suppliers, but we use the VDA 6.3 system to audit the suppliers with (German Company). Therefore I guess with your responses, it is safe to say, that if our Advanced Qualify folks in our customer team allow the suppliers to PPAP without specifying the actual press used, the supplier is within their rights to use alternatives (press only).

Andy
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#7
The primary concern is whether changing the press will affect the quality of the product. This is where you need to understand the process. As long as they use the die in a press of the same size or larger, the risk is very low. However, if they were to run the die in a smaller press, the risk is higher because the tonnage may be too low to correctly form the product.
 

optomist1

A Sea of Statistics
Super Moderator
#8
it has been my experience in the automotive PPAP/PDR arena...the production line must reflect "production intent, in parts produced and the line producing the same... A bit more from the OEM perspective...most have a "Forever Requirement"...or similarly stated = any change to part or process no matter how "insignificant" must be communicated to the OEM rep before hand...hope this helps.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#9
it has been my experience in the automotive PPAP/PDR arena...the production line must reflect "production intent, in parts produced and the line producing the same... A bit more from the OEM perspective...most have a "Forever Requirement"...or similarly stated = any change to part or process no matter how "insignificant" must be communicated to the OEM rep before hand...hope this helps.
You're quoting without providing a source.
 

Ron Rompen

Trusted Information Resource
#10
I have always written my PPAP submission to show the size of press, but NEVER the asset number. A change to another press of the same size/type shouldn't be an issue BUT there are customers who will not agree. If you think there is a chance that they will come in and specifically look into it, then you are better off to submit your PPAP accordingly.
 
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