PPAP and ISO/TS 16949 - PPAP Submission - What are the SHALLs?

[Sue]

Hi All,

I'm back again with another question.

I'm reviewing my company's S.O.P. for PPAP Submission and was wondering just what specific SHALLS relate to this in the new standard.

Any help would be appreciated.

Sue

 

[Sue]

Should add that we are a manufacturing company, but we do not design our products.

 

[db]

PPAP

PPAP is mentioned in 7.3.6.3 only that you will abide by your customer's requirements. I do find it interesting that it is in the "Design" area, but TS also states that you cannot exclude 7.3 in its entirety (see 1.2). This means that 7.3.6.3 applies to non-design responsible organizations as well.

 

[Bill Ryan - 2007]

Sue,

My company just finished up our second surveillance audit to ISO/TS 16949. We, too, are a "small" manufacturing company and I asked our larger automotive customers pretty much the same question you asked. Their response was, basically, not to throw out the "PPAP - Third edition" AIAG manual (do I have any documentation of this - of course not). If I didn't continue to follow those guidelines (plus their additional requirements), my PPAPs would be rejected. As db said, the requirement is that you "SHALL conform to a ... process approval procedure recognized by the customer" (and don't forget that it "SHALL also be applied to suppliers.").

After all that, we did not have to change our S.O.P. during the "conversion" from QS to TS as it already addressed the "PPAP manual".

Bill

 

[SteelWoman]

Question to all: We're also a manufacturing process like Sue that is not design responsible for the product. I read the section about applying PPAP to suppliers, but then in the back of the PPAP manual, under the bulk materials section, it says I'm responsible for applying ppap to my suppliers IF theysupply ingredients "which have supplier designated 'special characterisitics.'" Now since we're Tier 2 we actually don't have ANY customers who designate special characteristics. So can I read that to mean I do NOT have to apply ppap to MY suppliers?

 

[db]

Question to all: We're also a manufacturing process like Sue that is not design responsible for the product. I read the section about applying PPAP to suppliers, but then in the back of the PPAP manual, under the bulk materials section, it says I'm responsible for applying ppap to my suppliers IF theysupply ingredients "which have supplier designated 'special characterisitics.'" Now since we're Tier 2 we actually don't have ANY customers who designate special characteristics. So can I read that to mean I do NOT have to apply ppap to MY suppliers?

The question is do all of your suppliers fit uner the bulk materials section?

 

[SteelWoman]

WE fall under raw material - by the definition back there of raw material suppliers, we "IS ONE"

 

[db]

WE fall under raw material - by the definition back there of raw material suppliers, we "IS ONE"

Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh, that was not my intent (BTW I'm not implying your response reflected that, I just re-read my post).

I think you may have a point, especially if you read the paragraph above the one you spoke of. However now I ask: Is there any value in performing a PPAP with your suppliers? There is a difference between "we shall" and "we probably should". If you decide not to, I would make sure your decision is documented and the reasons explained.

 

[SteelWoman]

We use other means for approving our suppliers, and no, honestly, I can't think of any real "value added" to requiring them to ppap to US - we do so much testing of the material we get anyway, plus we then change the material, through rolling, slitting, etc - no real value that I can see at all to requiring them to ppap to us.

 

[p_tww]

PPAP is a general requirement for all the certified company. It does not only mean PPAP manual in QS-9000 system. Different customers have different PPAP requirements.
You may ask your customer their PPAP requirements, does not matter what tiers you are. you may find some customers required few papers, dimension, material report, function report etc.
and You must apply customer recognized PPAP method to your supplier. Of course, if some required document is not suitable for your supplier, such as for bulk material, dimension was nothing value.