PPAP and Part Sample Warrant (PSW) Requirements if a Machine is Moved

[Laura M]

Can the SQE in the next division/company say if you move it 2 feet you need to re-PPAP? Not sure, but I don't see the significance between 10 and 50. I've heard others state that if the PFD or PCP doesn't change, don't submit at all. And then an auditor will want to see a waiver!! Yikes!

When we moved 150 injection mold machines we showed the customer our re-PPAP plan. Basically the first mold run in the machine received a full PPAP. After that, other molds got "mini-qual's" basically verifying that the parameters previously used were still good. Kept a matrix and it "forced" us to do a better job at scheduling because we would only run certain molds in certain machines. Not easy (and production didn't like it)...but if you are of the mind to reduce variation, then its a good thing. I think "family" PPAP's were submitted with a copy of the matrix. I can understand wanting to verify no impact on the part..and our SQE had alot of common sense..so he worked with us to make it an affordable plan. Good luck.

 

[Howard Atkins]

The 3rd edition PPAP handbook seems to solve this problem.
I.3.3 situations where customer notification is not required.
Table I.3.3

2. Tool movement within the same plant (used in equivalent equipment....
3. Changes in equipment (same process flow.....
This appears to give the OK to move from one machine to another.

 

[Mark Ashley]

According AIAG, 3rd Edition, PPAP manual, resubmission is not required when moving a process/machine within the same building nor are you required to contact the customer.
Page 14, Table 1.3.3

 

[V.Muthuraman]

Reported Post by V.Muthuraman

Hi Friends,

My whole plant going to moved from existing location other location (New Plant) just 30 KM way, in this condition my customer asking to submit the PPAP as per 4th Edition. The location change going to take place another 4 months times,
My doubt is should i submit PPAP now or after changing the location.
Because my customer requested to submit PPAP for all product supplying to him currently.

 

[Howard Atkins]

Re: PPAP and Part Sample Warrant (PSW) if a machine is moved

You can only make PPAP parts when you have moved as this is the reason for resubmitting.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Reported Post by V.Muthuraman

Hi Friends,

My whole plant going to moved from existing location other location (New Plant) just 30 KM way, in this condition my customer asking to submit the PPAP as per 4th Edition. The location change going to take place another 4 months times,
My doubt is should i submit PPAP now or after changing the location.
Because my customer requested to submit PPAP for all product supplying to him currently.

If you are supplying new salable parts to your customer from your present location, you'll have to do a PPAP submission, and then resubmit when you've moved and started production in the new location.

 

[_steph_]

Re: Reported Post by V.Muthuraman

Hello,
For my answer, I'll presume that you have already an approved PSW.
In theory, you just have to make another PPAP. For plant moving, i'm used to ask a level 5 PSW submission.
You can do like this if you use SPC.
So you have your actual Cpk.
If you don't monitor you capability I would suggest to make a Capability trial, compute your Cm/Cmk and do the same after moving. If you have the same results you will be able to show to your customer that your old process in your new plant doesn't know deviation.
In the other case you should be able to identify the deviation and study it more precisely.

Remember to produce enought part in your security stock to cover the PPAP study and PSW approval ...

 

[blue_cove]

Re: PPAP and Part Sample Warrant (PSW) if a machine is moved

In the same mood there was a previous discussion on whether you need to PPAP each different machine that you run the injection on. Here again he agreed that this was a grey area but his feeling was that if you change machine if you do not re PPAP then how do you know that the product is the same.

Hi,
It is an old post, but for a very interesting issue. How should we deal that kind of situation ?

If the company can produce the same part on several machines, whether such a company should prepare PPAP for each of the machines?

Frankly I have my doubts, but in this case, my inclination is that the PPAP should be prepared for each machine. How do we make sure that the parts are the same from every machine and meet the requirements of the customer?

I think a good solution would be to prepare the basic PPAP (level 3) at loud machine in the case of other machinery PPAP will be limited only to the dimensional report, MSA, SPC and PSW.

What do you think about this issue? What are your experiences on this?

I’m look forward to any suggestions and information from you.

 

[Chennaiite]

Re: PPAP and Part Sample Warrant (PSW) if a machine is moved

If a Company *does* produce same part on several machines, say, in order to meet the Customer Volume requirements, one PPAP submission can be good enough, provided appropriate activities are done and relevant output documents are submitted. Ex. Inspection reports for each machine, Capability Study results for each machine, etc.

If a company *can* produce same part on several machines, say, in case of Maintenance, Breakdown, etc. and if i were the Customer, I wouldnt ask for the results from each machine during Initial PPAP submission. But I would ensure that the Control plan includes adequate controls during Process changeover.

Much depends on the complexity of the Manufacturing Process as well. Like, Heat Treatment and Pre-Machining process wouldnt be measured on the same scale.

 

[sitapaty]

Re: PPAP and Part Sample Warrant (PSW) if a machine is moved

We are planning to move several molding machines from one side of the plant to the other side of the plant and the question of "do we need to re-submit for PSW approval has
come up. The PPAP manual requires that we
contact our "Part approval Authority" and if they do not require a PSW we would need a part number specific waiver.

OK that's easy, now the problem is that we have never PSW'd to a specific machine only to a specific tonnage of machine and the result is that we have almost 500 part numbers that would require a specific waiver.

And we all know the "The Customer" is not going to issue 500 waivers for this.

So how can we meet the intent of the standard without killing ourselves in the process ??

Thanks in advance

Bill Smith

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In the circumstances you have mentioned ,not only you have to submit new psw also you have to apply for a new certification audit.
-sitapaty