PPAP Applicability - 10,000 Part Numbers - Control Plans for ALL part numbers?

[Bryon C Simmons]

PPAP Applicability


Hi

We are a job shop..produce probably 10, 000 different part numbers in any given year.....only two of these part numbers are sold directly to any of the Big 3.....most are automotive related, but not direct.

Our registrar is telling me that I must do COntrol Plans on ALL part numbers, or have waiver from customers for PPAP. We are talking about approximately 2500 different customers.......I have the proper documentation ...i.e. Control Plans, FMEA, PPAP records for the parts sold directly.....but not for all the others.......

Feedback anyone.........do we need this documentation?. I have written my procedure to state, that when it is contractually required, we will do PPAP. THey didnt like this very much....wanted to see all of it........

 

[Kevin Mader]

Bryon,

I believe you are right, your registrar wrong. Only parts sold directly to the OEM require PPAP. Your registrar may be thinking this however. If you chose to live in two manufacturing worlds, do you endorse the full benefit of QS 9000 system requirements? The answer is, you do what you can based on your resources available. You may not be able to apply the PPAP to all 10,000 or even 10. So this is why you live in two worlds and perform as contractually obligated.

 

[Howard Atkins]

Please note the following from QS ed 3
4.2.4.2 Subcontractor Requirements.
Suppliers should utilize a part approval process (e.g. PPAP) for subcontractors/
Note Certain customers require that their suppliers use PPAP with their subcontractors.

This shows that not only OEM parts are required for PPAP .

 

[Howard Atkins]

I think that you must ask your customer if he requires PPAP. This must be a positive action on your part. As a supplier to Delphi they require me to supply the warrant of any purchased parts and to have them submit PPAP. If you send a sample send it with a warrant (level 1) this shows your customer that you know what you are doing and he can use it to approve the part, which you need any way.
Best of luck.

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[Dawn]

Are you saying we do not have to require PPAP's from our subcontractors if we are tier two, not dealing directly with Ford, Chrysler, or GM?
Because it states this in the third edition that we do require PPAP's from suppliers.
Do we only have to do this if we are tier one?

 

[Howard Atkins]

As I said before the tier is not the criterion, you are expected to develop your suppliers and encourage them to work according to QS. You do not have to request a full PPAP and not all suppliers can do this but you should expect at least an abreviated form so that you and not the next tier can be sure the part that you purchase is good.

 

[Chad Eilers]

This seems to be a very interesting topic. During our pre-assessment the auditor explained that a Level 1 - 5 is only a SUBMISSION LEVEL, and we (as a Tier 2&3 supplier) must do all PPAP documentation and updated Control Plans for all current products being supplied to the automotive industry if we wish to obtain QS-9000 certification. It does not matter what your customer requests (that is only the submission level), we must do complete PPAP regardless!

I had same opinion & I do not agree with; however, that is what I was told.

 

[ALM]

Have I ever mentioned how much I despise QS9000?

Anyhoo...

Welcome to "user-interpretations" class:

We have defined the scope of our QS9000 based Quality System to apply ONLY TO AUTOMOTIVE-RELATED PARTS. I have not heard first-hand of a single instance where a registrar has zapped a company for not applying it to ALL parts produced. (I work in a "job-shop," too. If I didn't know better, I would think that you are in one of our offices!)

Additionally, I currently have only provided PPAPS upon request from the customer (we are not a tier 1 supplier but still do a LOT of PPAP'ing to the people we supply).

Perhaps I am in for a rude awakening but, in talking to our registrar, BSI... so far, so good. In fact, our office personnel are broken down into industry related work groups. The registrar will only be auditing those QS related activities performed by our "Transportation Team." The rest of the teams matter not. That is how the scope has been defined for us.

ALM

 

[Batman]

Hi ALM-

I have seen in other sections discussions re APQP, Continuous Improvement, SPC, Cpk, et al as only applying to "Automotive" customers, or some who have stated that only some of their products are "automotive" so only those are "under" QS9000. These discussions can be looked up and reviewed, but to add a penny or so, I wonder if having 2 systems for new project development, feasibility review, SPC, etc.? Is it feasible to bring some projects on (or control processes or control documentation or whatever) under the QS9000 auspices, and other projects just happen? Can you for instance have some documentation revision controlled and some not?

I think having two systems would be more difficult than having one good one, and be able to prove that it is in compliance.

Also I would be surprised that the auditors that are supposed to audit to a QS9000 based quality system would accept the fact that some areas of a facility is in compliance to QS9000 and some parts are not.?

Or am I misreading you?

 

[Jada]

I've read these replies with some interest, so I thought I would add my 5 cents worth!!

To understand QS, terminolgy is very important. In terms of QS a customer is GM, Ford, Chrysler and anyone who subscribes to QS 9000. A supplier is an organisation who provides products etc.. to these customers. A subcontractor is an organisation who provides production materials etc.. directly to a supplier to Ford, GM, Chrysler and anyone else who subscribes to QS 9000 (Refer to QS Glossary for Subcontractor).

Therefore the subcontractor PPAP requirements 4.2.4 are only for the subcontractrs who fall under the above definition, likewise Subcontractor development 4.6.2.1 is only for subcontractors who fall under the above definition.

Based on the definition of "Subcontractor" I would totally disagree that Subcontractor development or PPAP is required for all subcontractors. This is only the case if they fall under the definition of subcontractor as defined by QS.