PPAP & APQP - What other sectors are Adopting/Adapting these Concepts?

TPMB4

Quite Involved in Discussions
#1
I was wondering if PPAP is widely carried out in non-automotive sectors.

What similar APQP process is used in other sectors of industry such as more general manufacturing sectors? I am sure aerospace and pharmaceutical sectors have their own standards and APQP processes which are also quite strict and thorough, but what about other general manufacturers?
 
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Kevin Mader

One of THE Original Covers!
Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: PPAP/APQP - What other sectors are Adopting/Adapting these Concepts?

You might be surprised...

In my experience, many industries borrow the APQP and PPAP processes for themselves. In Medical Device, it's not uncommon to find customers/suppliers using these otherwise automotive processes. FMEA might be more broadly applied, but they have them. Sure enough the tougher industries (med. dev., pharma, aero) have key quality assurance practices (e.g. validation, process validation) that are requirements, but in reality, these are requirements across all industries but less enforced by organizations or in unregulated industry, by government.

My advice: borrow good ideas from any industry and apply them to your own. Worry less about terminology unless it makes sense.

Before re-entering medical device, I would have not forced folks to execute design or process validation. But there is huge benefit in doing so, so even if I leave medical devices, I'll do it in the next industry I find myself in.

Kevin
 

TPMB4

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
Re: PPAP/APQP - What other sectors are Adopting/Adapting these Concepts?

I'm in and out of automotive sectors depending on the product so I do it for auto but don't for the others.

I have decided to PPAP a non-automotive product. Not a full PPAP just a simple borrowing of some of the principles such as PFMEA, Control Plan, Flow, packaging standard and possibly the dimension report. I guess there are other parts also of use but since this is for my own use not customers or colleagues I can't go ahead with it too deeply I think.

I do reckon PPAP and APQP from automotive sector is a good practise to get into for all products. I'm sure there are other things commonly done in one sector that if applied to another would be beneficial but being new to proper quality systems and procedures I don't really know what would apply well to my products.
 

Kevin Mader

One of THE Original Covers!
Staff member
Admin
#4
Re: PPAP/APQP - What other sectors are Adopting/Adapting these Concepts?

I worked for Thule years ago, so we supplied the open market and our OEM partners. My boss back then wanted to only do QS9000 type activities when we addressed the OEMs but not for ourselves. Essentially, he wanted to live in two worlds (QMSs). This made no sense to me (good for them, but not us) and made it confusing to other parts of the business. His goal was to contain costs, but in every sense, he was making things more expensive with this thinking. My advice: trust your gut and move forward. Cost benefit is in the lower cost products and higher quality levels.

You win.
 
M

Murphys Law

#5
Re: PPAP/APQP - What other sectors are Adopting/Adapting these Concepts?

If we get asked for a PPAP on a non-automotive device, we turn it down.

We charge higher prices for automotive devices and servicing, and PPAP documentation packet is included in that service.
 
S

silentrunning

#6
Re: PPAP/APQP - What other sectors are Adopting/Adapting these Concepts?

Being a job shop we see a good variety of manufacturing disciplines. Many non automotive companies use PPAP.FMEA and APQP. We have many companies that have nothing to do with aerospace using AS9102 for 1st Articles. If you are in manufacturing today you better be up on all the methodology. As Kevin said, if it's a good idea, use it.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
Re: PPAP/APQP - What other sectors are Adopting/Adapting these Concepts?

If we get asked for a PPAP on a non-automotive device, we turn it down.

We charge higher prices for automotive devices and servicing, and PPAP documentation packet is included in that service.
Can you afford to turn business down because of a justified PPAP request?

Be prepared, because more and more smart customers are pushing quality verification and validation expectations back up the supply chain.
 

Kales Veggie

People: The Vital Few
#8
Re: PPAP/APQP - What other sectors are Adopting/Adapting these Concepts?

If we get asked for a PPAP on a non-automotive device, we turn it down.

We charge higher prices for automotive devices and servicing, and PPAP documentation packet is included in that service.
Are you sure this is a smart business decision?

If you do product planning correctly, you already have most of the PPAP documents.
 

TPMB4

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
TBH we are not hot on the formal side of things if they are not needed by customers. I would say we do most of the PPAP and APQP but it does not get formally documented. A lot of our processes are repeats of previous jobs in that only a few things change. Yes, we do have work documentations and specs but the formal control plan, PFMEA, flow, Packaging Standard, dimension report, etc does not get specifically written up.

I am sure there are many who are like us. Whether that is not good I can not say but we make the effort just like many small companies don't have the resources all the time to do what we would like to do in an ideal world.

I don't agree with saying no just because it is not specifically part of the business sector. Non-automotive customers can get the same service that automotive customers get if they want/need it. If not asked for they can't be expected to get it of course. I would prefer to follow a standard procedure for all customers whether or not they ask for it. Seems good practice to me. Aaah! One day I will get there.
 
M

Murphys Law

#10
Yes, we have 1000's of part numbers so cannot afford the cost of servicing every request for a PPAP. We have multiple factories and subcontract factories.

When we release an automotive device, it requires more QS assessment, screening and qualification.

However, most of our portfolio is non-automotive and we do not formally require FMEAs, MSA and control plans on those. Not only that, but some products just aren't suitable for automotive. We need to control these as we gave had automotive customers attempt to buy a COTS device and expect to get automotive servicing but we've had to tell them that they'll only get IS0 support regardless.

Now that is not to say we will not have dialogs with our qualified customers. We will give out qualification reports and support to some level how we make things in a customer meeting but no PPAP for COTS devices.
 
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