PPAP - Can't get signed warrant from customers - TS 16949 Audit soon

D

dbzman

#11
Suggestion

Just a suggestion but why not mail your PPAPs by "certified mail"?

This would at least get some sort of "signiture" that the PPAP wass received.

We have had a lot of customers fail to sign the warrent for us and this was one way we showed our auditors that it was beyond our control.

:agree1:
 
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V

Valeri

#13
Mustang said:
I wish our customers were that cooperative. Unfortunately, they're not (we're tier 2 & 3). Heck, in a lot of cases, the individual that approves the PPAP isn't anywhere near where the people who do the scorecards are. Even different countries, sometimes.
We are tier 1 & 2 & 3 and have what we call a "defcon" system. When we are missing vital/required documents, we send out letters to our customers at 4 defined intevals with the last stage putting the program on hold. You'd be surprised how this gets their attention.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#14
:topic:
I once submitted a PPAP to a customer, who sat on it for several months. In the mean time, their print changed a revision. Shortly thereafter I recieved the PSW back - it was rejected because it was "submitted to the wrong revision." :confused:
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#15
howste said:
:topic:
I once submitted a PPAP to a customer, who sat on it for several months. In the mean time, their print changed a revision. Shortly thereafter I recieved the PSW back - it was rejected because it was "submitted to the wrong revision." :confused:
Everyone sympathizes with this scenario. What is signifies, though, is a lack of "continual communication" with customers and suppliers to go along with "continual improvement." (your shop and the customer's share the NC.)

This kind of thing falls under
  • Contract Review
  • Management Responsibility (commitment and customer focus and review)
  • Product Realization (planning, customer-related processes, production and service provision - especially "validation of processes for production")
In most cases, though, the only valid course of action is to act like a fraternity pledge during he** week and say, "Thank you, sir. May I have another?" when the customer gives you a kick in the rear like that.
 
J

Jim Howe

#16
howste said:
:topic:
I once submitted a PPAP to a customer, who sat on it for several months. In the mean time, their print changed a revision. Shortly thereafter I recieved the PSW back - it was rejected because it was "submitted to the wrong revision." :confused:
I am curious, what was your response to the customer. Did you immediatley send him a copy of the purchase order line item that declares part number, revision, and qty.? Did you declare that if revision has changed then the purchase order must be requoted? Or did you redo the PPAP at the new rev with no additional charges? :nope:
 
H

Hugo K

#17
We just had an audit where the same happened. During the discussion with the auditor, he agreed with us that we had done enough to get approval and that the problem was at the customer (so no remark on this)

It is very frustrating that customers ask so many things, but do not want to do any effort for their supplier who has brought him all the paperwork.

For my customers I am strict (since last year): no approval = no parts. I can block parts in shipping and no part will be send. They can jump high or low: no parts without approval. If the PPAP is 'administrative', like yearly requalification, we registrate the PPAP in our system as administrative, this means that customer approval is not neccessary. But any change or new part will be blocked. I can tell you that this way of working works well.

I hope I helped you with this information.
 
F

fdcsboss

#18
If there are no issues holding back approval I would let the customer know that they will receive no more parts with out a signed warrent or a customer waiver of PPAP approval. As far as TS I don't believe the auditor will give you negative remarks if you have made every effort to resolve.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#19
I agree - the ideal way to deal with a customer who doesn't uphold his end of the deal by signing off on approvals is to bring proceedings to a halt until cooperation is re-established.

I am aware, however, of many situations where suppliers feel they have to suck the gas pipe with their customers or lose the business (and profit) to a supplier who is more accommodating.

It just "shows to go you" that customers don't really believe in following the letter of their own rules.

What do YOU say when somebody above you in the chain of command [the boss, sales rep, CFO, etc.] says, "Ship the darn thing and we'll settle up later. This customer isn't going to use the lack of THEIR signoff against us."

Even more important: Why do you say that?
 
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