PPAP customer notification - what do you think?

Richard.L.Holland

Starting to get Involved
#1
Hi all,
Just would like to see what you think on “Does the customer need notification?”

Let me explain with a cake!!!!!! :biglaugh: The cake could be plastic beads and we make mouldings

The process:
We purchase cakes –> cut them into different shapes -> and ice them. -> sold on to our T2 customers.

I purchase a cake from our supplier, which has been PPAPed to me in the past.
To make the cake they use 5 ingredients.
They ask can they change one of the ingredients (lets say the eggs from a different supplier). – No change in the process for making the cakes.

More samples are sent and are fully validated by us vs the current cake.
They then send new PPAP documentation to us, which we approve.

So do we then need to notify our customers?
 
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Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Hi all,
Just would like to see what you think on “Does the customer need notification?”

Let me explain with a cake!!!!!! :biglaugh: The cake could be plastic beads and we make mouldings

The process:
We purchase cakes –> cut them into different shapes -> and ice them. -> sold on to our T2 customers.

I purchase a cake from our supplier, which has been PPAPed to me in the past.
To make the cake they use 5 ingredients.
They ask can they change one of the ingredients (lets say the eggs from a different supplier). – No change in the process for making the cakes.

More samples are sent and are fully validated by us vs the current cake.
They then send new PPAP documentation to us, which we approve.

So do we then need to notify our customers?
Yes.

But if you provide the customer with the supporting information, you may not have to resubmit.

Stijloor.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#4
Yes.

But if you provide the customer with the supporting information, you may not have to resubmit.

Stijloor.
I'm not sure that the "yes" is correct; in the 4th Edition PPAP manual, on page 13, #5 in the list of things that require customer notification is "Change of supplier for parts..." and the "Clarification" says, "The organization is responsible for approval of supplier provided material and services." This is ambiguous, imo, and the case may be made that Tier One (the OP's company) hasn't changed suppliers, nor are they using a "...material [other than] used in the previously approved part or product." (#1 on the list) Eggs is eggs. There might be an issue if they switched from chicken eggs to platypus eggs, but I can't see an actual requirement to notify the customer in the case as it's described.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#6
I am "on the road" and do not have my PPAP manual with me.
The key term is: "Any planned change..."

My Fellow Covers may chime in on this one....

Stijloor.
#7 on the aforementioned list cites "Product or process changes related to components of the production product manufactured internally or manufactured by suppliers." The "Clarification" says, "Any changes, including changes at the suppliers to the organization and their suppliers, that affect customer requirements, e.g., fit, form function, performance, durability."

A sub-tier's change of egg suppliers shouldn't affect any of those things.
 

Richard.L.Holland

Starting to get Involved
#7
I at first was saying that our customers should be informed.
After all the validation work had been done and the results show that they are the same. I then checked the PPAP book again and thought I do not need to notify them?

So that’s why I’m ask you all.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
I at first was saying that our customers should be informed.
After all the validation work had been done and the results show that they are the same. I then checked the PPAP book again and thought I do not need to notify them?

So that’s why I’m ask you all.
Richard,

My approach to "customer notifications" is very conservative.
My personal view is: "better safe than sorry."
When in doubt, ask the "authorized customer representative."

Stijloor.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#9
I at first was saying that our customers should be informed.
After all the validation work had been done and the results show that they are the same. I then checked the PPAP book again and thought I do not need to notify them?

So that’s why I’m ask you all.
My own strategy in situations like this--where there's ambiguity--has always been to err on the side of caution and notify the customer. Each situation has to be evaluated independently, with decisions made accordingly. As I've already indicated, if I did decide in a case like this not to notify, I would have a reasonable rationale for the decision should I ever need to explain myself.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#10
My own strategy in situations like this--where there's ambiguity--has always been to err on the side of caution and notify the customer. Each situation has to be evaluated independently, with decisions made accordingly. As I've already indicated, if I did decide in a case like this not to notify, I would have a reasonable rationale for the decision should I ever need to explain myself.

Jim,

Excellent points! :agree:

Stijloor.
 
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