PPAP customer requirements in the APQP

[Pau Calvo]

Hello,

I am facing a problem with the customer requirements requested for a PPAP and I seek for your experience and opinion that how to proceed. I have been recently "awarded" with this responsibility and I am a bit lost.

We are developing a project that have been offered to the customer only with the PPAP dimensional studies, now the customer ask for dimensional studies for FoT parts.
When we tell our customer that that was not planned and should be scheduled he argue that is part of PPAP.
We answer that we need the sampling requirements document to have all the requirements since it was not send with the awarding note.
Then they send a FoT sampling requirement that won't be valid for PPAP samples.


As far I always understand FoT are not part of PPAP and customer should deliver a single sample requirement for the whole APQP.

I am mistaken? How may i argue that the procedure of the customer is not according APQP?



Thank you for your help.

 

[Golfman25]

Not quite sure what "FoT" parts are. But what PPAP standard are you working under. The AIAG requirements are pretty clear, but that is automotive.

 

[Pau Calvo]

FoT stands for First of Tool, the first parts produced with a not homologated tool.
We work under AIAG requeriments and my customer is a big Tier 1 automotive company.
That's why I quite not understand it.

 

[Miner]

In my experience, once you get below the OEMs, this whole discussion becomes a negotiation between your customer and your organization. I have seen the resolution go either way depending on which organization had greater leverage. If you are a single or sole source, or this customer is a small portion of your business, the leverage is on your side and you can judiciously push back. If the customer is a large portion of your business, or has many alternate suppliers available, you have few options other that agreeing to comply.

 

[Golfman25]

If they are the first parts off the tool, then yes they should be submitted as samples with all the requisite paper work. They are supposed to come from a significant production run. The "point" behind PPAP is to verify that you're ready to run full on production.

 

[Jim Wynne]

FoT stands for First of Tool, the first parts produced with a not homologated tool.
We work under AIAG requeriments and my customer is a big Tier 1 automotive company.
That's why I quite not understand it.

Does your customer have specific requirements that range beyond the basic AIAG requirements? If so, were you made aware of them? Have you checked their purchase order for references to customer-specific requirements? You say that you've provided PPAP "...only with the PPAP dimensional studies..." What does this mean?

 

[optomist1]

by chance are these injection molded parts? If so, what is the surface class of the part?

 

[Pau Calvo]

Does your customer have specific requirements that range beyond the basic AIAG requirements? If so, were you made aware of them? Have you checked their purchase order for references to customer-specific requirements? You say that you've provided PPAP "...only with the PPAP dimensional studies..." What does this mean?

As far as I have been informed, this requeriment was not in the purchase order, anyway customer did not send any global schedule for the project.
We, as standard, only include dimensional reports for the PPAP samples in the offer of the project. Further dimensional reports have to ordered outside the main order of the project. We proceed that way to avoid that our customer could keep asking for dimensional reports and overrun our metrological department.

 

[Pau Calvo]

by chance are these injection molded parts? If so, what is the surface class of the part?

Are aluminium diecasted injected parts but without surface class or visual requeriment.

 

[Jim Wynne]

As far as I have been informed, this requeriment was not in the purchase order, anyway customer did not send any global schedule for the project.
We, as standard, only include dimensional reports for the PPAP samples in the offer of the project. Further dimensional reports have to ordered outside the main order of the project. We proceed that way to avoid that our customer could keep asking for dimensional reports and overrun our metrological department.

Did you do dimensional reports in qualification of the tooling?