PPAP Document Submission and Retention requirements

B

basselope

For your consideration: Are there 18 or 19 items in the PPAP 4th Ed. document Retention/Submission Requirements?


Here's what I've noticed:

1) The Retention/Submission Requirements Table on page 18 lists 18 numbered items and 1 item left un-numbered (Bulk Materials Checklist), each with their cooresponding retention/submission requirements.

2) On the Truck Industry PSW on page 61 there are 19 checkboxes to indicate the possible documents included with a level 4 submission. (do we really need a checkbox on the PSW to indicate that a PSW is included? but I digress.)

Seems obvious enough...some one just forgot to number Bulk Materials Checklist on page 18.
Then I noticed this:

3) In the GM Customer Specifics issued in March,
www.iaob.org/content/rev042606_GMCustSpecificsTS16949_PPAP_Mar06.pdf
page 7 includes a reference (and I quote):

"As a reference the following is a list of the 18 requirements from PPAP see
Retention/Submission Requirements, Table 4.1 and the GM ILM retention period for each
item"

It then goes on to show a slightly modified version of Table 4.2 on PPAP page 18 - no mention of the Bulk Materials Checklist.

----------------------------------
My take on it is that the 19th checkbox on the Truck Ind. PSW refers to the Bulk Materials Checklist.
I've not yet had to deal with PPAPing Bulk Materials, but it's looking as though I will in the near future. Any thoughts?
:bonk:
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
Re: Document Submission/Retention requirements

I think I understand what you're asking, but why are you looking at GM CSRs and a truck industry warrant form?
 
B

basselope

Re: Document Submission/Retention requirements

A few reasons...

- The Level 4 checkboxes on the truck industry PSW presumably (because it is not specifically called out) refer to the numbered items in the Retention/Submission Requirements table.

- My company produces parts for the Heavy Truck Industry.

- GM owns some of the companies we produce for and GM requirements are beginning to be forced down throught the system (rightly or not.)

------------------------------------------------------------
A synopsis of my original question:

- GM specifically says there are 18 items required by PPAP
- the PPAP manual shows 18 numbered and 1 un-numbered items
- Truck PSW has 19 checkboxes for submission items

So which is it - 18 or 19 basic PPAP submission/retention requirements?
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
Re: Document Submission/Retention requirements

basselope said:
A few reasons...

- The Level 4 checkboxes on the truck industry PSW presumably (because it is not specifically called out) refer to the numbered items in the Retention/Submission Requirements table.

- My company produces parts for the Heavy Truck Industry.

- GM owns some of the companies we produce for and GM requirements are beginning to be forced down throught the system (rightly or not.)

------------------------------------------------------------
A synopsis of my original question:

- GM specifically says there are 18 items required by PPAP
- the PPAP manual shows 18 numbered and 1 un-numbered items
- Truck PSW has 19 checkboxes for submission items

So which is it - 18 or 19 basic PPAP submission/retention requirements?

I think it's even more weird. On page 57 of the 4th Edition manual it says,
For bulk material...the organization shall formally qualify their product to their design record and submit a PSW when requested by the customer

So if the mystery box on the truck PSW does represent the Bulk Materials Checklist, its presence is completely unnecessary because the BM checklist itself is unnecessary.

I have no idea what the intention is, or what the 19th box means, and I think that anybody who claims to know is probably just guessing. As we say so often here, when in doubt, ask the customer.
 
Last edited:
B

basselope

Re: Document Submission/Retention requirements

Hmmm... I hadn't caught that.

I did notice that page 17 says:

For Bulk Material PPAP submissions, check "Other" in the Reason for Submission Section on the PSW form and specify "Bulk Material." This indicates that the "Bulk Material Requirements Checklist" was used to specify the PPAP requirements for the bulk material and shall be included in the submission packet.

"..."Bulk Material Requirements Checklist" was used to specify the PPAP requirements..."
I didn't say anything before... it was confusing enough. :lmao:

(ow... my brain hurts.)
Thanks for the input Jim!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

Dave Dunn

Re: Document Submission/Retention requirements

Could be just a "typo", a box left over from the previous version.

In modifying our internal form, I noticed on the standard PSW for edition 4, they misspelled "warrant" as "warrent" in the declaration section at the bottom. Just another case of not proofreading.
 
B

basselope

Re: Document Submission/Retention requirements

Yea, I had considered that. But if you compare the submission/retention requirements from 3rd and 4th you find that all of the same items appear - slightly re-ordered - once again leading me to the impression that the Bulk Materials Checklist should be item #19 in PPAP 4th.
Of course that would mean that GMs CSR is in error as it states that there are only 18 items... (waits for lightning to strike.) :(

In the end, I believe Jim is right; "ask the customer"
...then make a hard copy and keep it in your file. :D
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
Re: Document Submission/Retention requirements

Dave Dunn said:
Could be just a "typo", a box left over from the previous version.

In modifying our internal form, I noticed on the standard PSW for edition 4, they misspelled "warrant" as "warrent" in the declaration section at the bottom. Just another case of not proofreading.

Or, more likely, hiring proofreaders who can't spell. :lol:
 
B

basselope

Re: Document Submission/Retention requirements

I had tried to contact AIAG to get a ruling on this awhile back and eventually gave up on getting an answer. Well, today I got an answer... and I quote:

" Thanks for bringing this to my attention."

end quote.


I guess that clears THAT up!
 

Marc

Fully vaccinated are you?
Leader
Knowing you can get more information, and a more timely fashion, here in these forums than from the AIAG just warms my black little heart.... :notme:
 
Top Bottom