PPAP for very Low Volume Suppliers and 'Job Shops'

[bobdoering]

Re: PPAP for very low volumes - Suppliers and 'Job Shops'

Our large caps are another story - the order can be for 1 or 2 or 10. Often it is some experimental design the customer is toying with. If it is considered a "prototype" is it their prototype, or ours? We make it the first time as if it were the only time. Sometimes it is, and sometimes we get to tweak the specs or process and do it again. Sometimes they might order up to 40 at a time.

It really depends on what they ask for in their purchase order. If they ask for a prototype PPAP in their PO, then...well...it is what it is. But, they could order it and only ask for minimum data. Hopefully, they are sophisticated enough to have a PPAP checklist, where they check what requirements they want for that particular order. Otherwise, you get to pull it out of them like pulling teeth.

One of our new customers is using our caps in engines - and in the interest of future automotive relationships and the growing interest in alternative energy transportation, we are looking at getting TS certified. (we are already ISO) Many of my questions are "how much of this applies to us" in nature. I'm currently here reading up on PPAP and APQP trying to figure out what it is we need to do. I have a headache. Do I have a specific question?

Well... I guess it would be "How much detail can they (auditors I suppose) expect a company this size to go into?"

Auditors expect you to meet all of the requirements of any other size company. Your real issue is going to be if your are design responsible. At that point, the ante gets cranked up quick.

 

[Wes Bucey]

Re: PPAP for very low volumes - Suppliers and 'Job Shops'

In a sense, Bob is describing an effective MARKETING tool I've used for most of my career - set myself up as the "expert go-to guy" for the customer, convincing him the most effective and efficient route for him to follow to get what he needs is to answer ALL my questions truthfully and NOT treat me like an adversary.

In order for the ploy to work, though, you really do have to have the motive and goal of solving all problems for the customer, not just making things easy for yourself.

 

[bobdoering]

Re: PPAP for very low volumes - Suppliers and 'Job Shops'

In a sense, Bob is describing an effective MARKETING tool I've used for most of my career - set myself up as the "expert go-to guy" for the customer, convincing him the most effective and efficient route for him to follow to get what he needs is to answer ALL my questions truthfully and NOT treat me like an adversary.

In order for the ploy to work, though, you really do have to have the motive and goal of solving all problems for the customer, not just making things easy for yourself.

Conversely, it is good to have a customer that is willing to work with you as a resource, and not take advantage of your good will. I have seen both, and getting taken advantage of gets old after a while. They may use you to do their process development, then give the ongoing work to their buddies. If you were planning on the order to pay for the up front engineering, you will get stiffed. As I said...it gets old.

 

[Wes Bucey]

Re: PPAP for very low volumes - Suppliers and 'Job Shops'

Conversely, it is good to have a customer that is willing to work with you as a resource, and not take advantage of your good will. I have seen both, and getting taken advantage of gets old after a while. They may use you to do their process development, then give the ongoing work to their buddies. If you were planning on the order to pay for the up front engineering, you will get stiffed. As I said...it gets old.

Yep. I've addressed this rather recently.
see these three posts, all in the same thread
Wes Bucey on an efficient shop - empowerment (This is a single post (#18) in a longer thread - the url leads directly to the post - it is associated with a follow-up in post #20)
https://elsmar.com/elsmarqualityforum/posts/105469/
Wes Bucey on quoting and empowerment (This is a single post (#20) in a longer thread - the url leads directly to the post)
(broken link removed)

See also post #23 in the same thread, elaborating on the theme
Up front engineering costs - golden handcuffs for customers

https://elsmar.com/elsmarqualityforum/posts/273088/

 

[bobdoering]

Golden handcuffs...I like that.