PPAP on Low Quantities (Low Volume Manufacturing)

M

Mandifer

#1
Hi all,

We are a sub-contract machining company making milled and turned components. One of our customers has recently started asking for PPAP on orders for new parts, but are proving completely unhelpful to us in understanding their requirements. They have simply recommended that we purchase the PPAP manual and read it! (I get the impression that nobody there understands it enough to give us any help, or cares enough to bother!)

I have tried to do some research before paying $150 for a book which might not prove to be much more help, and from what I have seen most of the process is for production parts. The latest order for this customer is for 20 off and they want PPAP on 5 off. I am happy to provide a dimensional inspection report for 5 off - can anyone give me a clue what else I ought to provide them with? Or even whether PPAP is meaningful for a batch of 20 off which will be made in about 48 hours, then the machine will be onto something else. We don't know if we will ever get another order for this part, although most of their parts do repeat. The most we make of any of their parts is probably 250 a year in small batches.

We do not design the parts - we work to customer prints, so our process is basically: purchase material -> machine to print - > inspect to print -> subcontract plating if required -> deliver to customer.

Any help you guys can offer will be gratefully received :)
 
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Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: PPAP on low quantities

You need to decide whether you really want to work with them.

Was this a contractual requirement that you have already agreed too?

If not then suggest that if they want them then it will cost.
If you have agreed to it in the contract then you should review your contract review process.

The PPAP requirement despite being from the automotive world CAN be requested by anyone and as with anything between customer and supplier is negotiable.

There are details of PPAP (previous versions but this does not matter unless they have said the "latest version")
Here is a link to APQP and there are plenty of files on the cove

Keep us informed and we will help along the way
 
S

silentrunning

#3
Re: PPAP on low quantities

I have run into this several times in the last few years. If the customer will not flow down any level requirements, all they get from me is a Part Submission Warrant. If they need more, they usually get very specific at this point.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Re: PPAP on low quantities

I think it is worth doing the basic research you are doing so that you can interact with the customer from a position of some knowledge.

All the same, PPAP on 5pcs for an order of 20pcs sounds like someone trying to check boxes on a form. As negative as that connotation may be, sometimes it is necessary.

A full PPAP costs a bit of time and money (in the form of time) and opens the door for negotiating cost/benefit with your customer. They are asking you to do more, look for how you can recoup the expense.

Recouping the expense may or may not be the best choice...that depends on your relationship with the customer and how the customer's business fits in to your overall business plan.

Any way you slice it, PPAP includes doing paperwork which takes investment of time. Your business needs to consider (1) whether it is worth it, (2) how to make it worth it, (3) whether you are willing to eat the investment, (4) etc...

Keep in mind that many aspects of the PPAP may be reused (copy & Paste) for other similar parts depending on their similarity (PFMEA, Procedure Documents, etc.) which can reduce the time investment on an ongoing basis.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#5
In my opinion, there is no place for PPAP in short runs. Your customer needs to be educated as to the purpose of a PPAP, and thus the reason for getting the manual and learning for yourself just what a PPAP is.

For what you are doing, a First Article Inspection Report would be more appropriate.

And herein lies one of the big differences in the overall perspective between aerospace and automotive. Aerospace needs to focus on making flight worthy parts in the generally lower quantities they require. Flight worthy is critical. It virtually over-arches all other requirements.

On the other hand, automotive focuses on high volume consistency with extreme cost cutting pressures. PPAP is focused on high volume consistency.

Like others, I have also seen a recent surge in buyers requesting PPAP where it doesn't have any validity or value. In most cases, it is from a new procurement manager that has recent aerospace AUTOMOTIVE experience and seem to think PPAP shows the highest value for all applications. It certainly does not.
 
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