PPAP Procedure for Suppliers

T

tusmobil

#1
Hello to all,

Im preparing PPAP procedure for our company and I need some advises.
We are not involved in automotive industry, but our customer demand that we have PPAP procedure for our suppliers.
So here is my vision of the steps:
1. Our company sends drawings ( with KKC ) or if the parts are standard what offers supplier - just order.
2. Demand DFMEA ( depends which supplier ), Flow chart, PFMEA and Control plan.
3. MSA
4. Material results
5. SPC ( for KKC )
6. DImensional report for first piece ( sample )
7. PSW

Can I make our own PSW form? Is the PSW form end of the PPAP?( when PSW is approved, that means that they can start sending parts to us?)

Best regards!
 
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J

jdtrixler

#2
If it were up to me I would get from my supplier the same pieces of the PPAP that your customer is requiring from you. From your post it does not appear that you are design responsible? I have seen many threads on here that talk about people not wanting to send out D/P FMEA's because of the info that they contain, so you might have an issue getting those from some suppliers.
I am sure that you can make your own PSW, but why re-invent the wheel. AIAG already designed one that is pretty easy to use!
To help even more I would recommend the AIAG PPAP book. It will explain each step, and give a few details on what each step is, along with examples.
 

Ron Rompen

Trusted Information Resource
#3
To echo the previouis poster, don't reinvent the wheel. Even if you're not automotive, there is no reason not to use the material that is already available through the AIAG (PPAP, PFMEA, SPC, APQP, MSA), rather than try to remember and document everything yourself.

Be sure you understand what YOUR customer needs as well, and then pass those requirements on to your suppliers; that way nothing gets forgotten or overlooked.

As for designing your own forms, you are of course free to do so, but all the required documents are available from AIAG (and several other sources) for a relatively low one-time cost.

If you need any more advice, don't hesitate to contact me privately, and I'll help out where I can.
 
T

tusmobil

#4
Thanks for your answers.
But I still have some questions:
First example:
Our company send drawings to supplier ( with KKC ). Then the supplier must do Flow chart, PFMEA and Control Plan. Then MSA for all gauges in Control plan, SPC for KKC, Dimensional report ( FAR ), Material results and finaly PSW in which we determine status of PPAP. IF PPAP is approved, then production can start.
is this the correct procedure? And if the supplier already sending parts to us, should we do the some procedure?

Second example:
Our company buys parts from suppliers which are producing the standard parts ( keylocks ).
What can we requesting from them? Can we determine KKC?
 
J

jdtrixler

#5
Tusmobil,
The flow of your procedure seems correct to me. To make stuff easiest on your supply base I would only request the info that you need. Are you the end user of the parts or are you suppling these to other companies? If you require all this documentation, then yes, ask for it from all of your suppliers.:agree:
As far as the second part of your first paragraph, I was just in a similar situation, but on the other side. My customer was demanding PPAP on all the finished parts, and sub-components that we use in for their parts. This had a strict deadline, and was impossible for a small quality staff (only me and one other person) to complete on time. This was a major headache between the quality staff and the president of the company.:mad:
As far as the last questions go, I am not sure what you can add to your suppliers prints (in the example given, I assume that they are design responsible). I assume that you can request PPAP from them and see what they say. Again, not knowing your company, and how much your business means to them, I am not sure what you would be able to demand/request, or what you will be able to receive from them. :2cents:
Best of luck, and please post any further questions!!!
 

Ron Rompen

Trusted Information Resource
#6
Your process description is accurate, if you are an automotive supplier. However all these items may not be necessary if you are non-automotive. You need to determine what YOUR customer needs (and why) and then make the process reflect that.

As for off-the-shelf items, you will probably have a difficult time getting a PPAP from a supplier, unless you are a VERY large consumer of their products. This is something that you need to discuss in detail with your customer, explaining your side of the issue. They may be new to the process as well, and just trying to cover their butts too :)
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#7
Hello to all,

Im preparing PPAP procedure for our company and I need some advises.
We are not involved in automotive industry, but our customer demand that we have PPAP procedure for our suppliers.
So here is my vision of the steps:
1. Our company sends drawings ( with KKC ) or if the parts are standard what offers supplier - just order.
2. Demand DFMEA ( depends which supplier ), Flow chart, PFMEA and Control plan.
3. MSA
4. Material results
5. SPC ( for KKC )
6. DImensional report for first piece ( sample )
7. PSW

Can I make our own PSW form? Is the PSW form end of the PPAP?( when PSW is approved, that means that they can start sending parts to us?)

Best regards!
The approved warrant is not the end of the PPAP process, it's the end of the APQP process. You can't reasonably have one without the other. If you just want your suppliers to send you a bunch of documents, that's what you'll get, but it won't mean much. What happens when you get a control plan and the entire "Process Characteristics" column is blank (evidence that the supplier doesn't understand the concept of process control)? That's just one example of many.

If your customer wants AIAG-style PPAP submissions, they need to understand what they're asking for. A cohesive, reasonable APQP process doesn't happen overnight. Your suppliers will need training and resources, and time. Your suppliers will undoubtedly squawk about additional costs and passing them along to you. Is your customer willing to bear those costs, or is your company expected to absorb them? There's a lot to think about outside of what documents you expect to see.
 
S

SCBright

#8
Our company buys parts from suppliers which are producing the standard parts ( keylocks ).
What can we requesting from them? Can we determine KKC?
Normally, the of-the-shelf items have no PPAP since there is no inference on its design.

You may do an agreement with your customer for whom he accepts a certificate from your supplier that attests the characteristics of the supplied item is in accordance with the specified. I am a PSW signer in my company (automotive) and sometimes we have some issues like that and I normally accept a certificate in these cases.
 

Raffy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
Hi :bigwave:
I was wondering if my concern would fit the title of this post, anyway...I had some problems regarding PPAP Requirement. We are ISO Certified before and PPAP is not a requirement for suppliers, now when we undergo TS, PPAP is now a requirement. Now my concern, How am I going to insert PPAP requirement in our procedure? How am I going to deal with our supplier to do PPAP? :frust:
Thank you very much in advance for the usual prompt attention you will give this request.
best regards,
raffy :cool:
 
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