PPAP Submission vs. Completion all of the PPAP Elements

[RacefanJTD]

Hello,

I am trying to convince a fellow employee that regardless of submission level, all of the PPAP elements must be completed. Without some hard evidence, this has become difficult. I have read the AIAG manual, and although it is easily implied, I am unable to find any clear wording to this affect.

Can anyone point me to something that would help me convince him?

Thanks
James

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: PPAP Submission vs Completion

Hello,

I am trying to convince a fellow employee that regardless of submission level, all of the PPAP elements must be completed. Without some hard evidence, this has become difficult. I have read the AIAG manual, and although it is easily implied, I am unable to find any clear wording to this affect.

Can anyone point me to something that would help me convince him?

Thanks
James

Welcome to the Cove.

The answer you seek is on page 18 of the 4th edition PPAP manual. There you'll find a listing of the submission and retention requirements for each PPAP level. The items to be retained are identified by the letter "R" and it's explained at the bottom of the page that "The organization shall retain [those elements] at appropriate locations and make available to the customer on request."

How can you retain and make available something that doesn't exist?

 

[RacefanJTD]

Thanks, that is a pretty good way to look at it. Hopefully I will be able to convince him armed with that information.

 

[harrysons]

Just added my opinion,

Or you might be able to communicate with customer representative, if they have any concern list of PPAP submission

Regards,

 

[qusys]

Hello,

I am trying to convince a fellow employee that regardless of submission level, all of the PPAP elements must be completed. Without some hard evidence, this has become difficult. I have read the AIAG manual, and although it is easily implied, I am unable to find any clear wording to this affect.

Can anyone point me to something that would help me convince him?

Thanks
James

It depends. SOme items could also be "waivered" in PPAP, both in the case you are requesting PPAP to your suppliers or your customer requires it to you.
it depend on the agreement. I think it is level 4 of PPAP.
Other Covers correct me if I am wrong

 

[Jim Wynne]

It depends. SOme items could also be "waivered" in PPAP, both in the case you are requesting PPAP to your suppliers or your customer requires it to you.
it depend on the agreement. I think it is level 4 of PPAP.
Other Covers correct me if I am wrong

For a level 4 PPAP the customer picks the specific elements to be submitted, but the remainder of the elements still must be done and retained.

 

[bobdoering]

For a level 4 PPAP the customer picks the specific elements to be submitted, but the remainder of the elements still must be done and retained.

You pretty much have to get a written deviation for a "partial PPAP" - although in many cases previous data that did not change (e.g. Gage R&Rs) can be in the file but do not need to be redone. Most customers like to see a complete PPAP when auditing, they hate trying to piece a bunch of "partial PPAPs" together. So, to salve their psyches, complete ones need to be on file.

 

[qusys]

For a level 4 PPAP the customer picks the specific elements to be submitted, but the remainder of the elements still must be done and retained.

Thanks for your response, Jim.
I would only like to share that we ( ISO TS certified company) have asked PPAP to some suppliers of ours ( raw material, I mean chemical that we use in our production line) even if hese materials are "bulk" and , according to related AIAG blue book, PPAP should not be requested. Consider that these raw materials ( chemical) are "at catalogue" ( without any our special characteristics, for instance). This supplier is ISO 9001 certified but is working for compliance to ISO TS.
We asked them only some items of PPAP and review them during supplier audit ( I mean flow chart, p-fmea, control plan, list of their used labs, msa, sample of materials for our qualification) and we had PSW signed off.
So we have "waived" some items of the 18 of PPAP, given that there were not applicable for the type of material.
What about this?

 

[Jim Wynne]

Thanks for your response, Jim.
I would only like to share that we ( ISO TS certified company) have asked PPAP to some suppliers of ours ( raw material, I mean chemical that we use in our production line) even if hese materials are "bulk" and , according to related AIAG blue book, PPAP should not be requested. Consider that these raw materials ( chemical) are "at catalogue" ( without any our special characteristics, for instance). This supplier is ISO 9001 certified but is working for compliance to ISO TS.
We asked them only some items of PPAP and review them during supplier audit ( I mean flow chart, p-fmea, control plan, list of their used labs, msa, sample of materials for our qualification) and we had PSW signed off.
So we have "waived" some items of the 18 of PPAP, given that there were not applicable for the type of material.
What about this?

Elements that aren't applicable aren't waived; they're not applicable. For example, if there's a part with no appearance requirements, you don't have to waive the Appearance Approval Report; it's taken for granted that it won't be completed or submitted. If you call for a level 4 PPAP, you can specify the elements you want, and also specify that the remaining elements are waived.

 

[qusys]

Thks , Jim.
However we did it to develop supplier vs ISO TS and its methods ( see PPAP).
Given that they are bulk material suppliers, we cculd not have asked it to them, but we wanted this as a requirement to adopt the same procedure that customer want from us ( application of PPAP for all supply chain, consider that we are in electronic component field).
Is this approach right as well as well level 4, pSW signed off and audit at their premises?
thank again