PPAP to Customer with Deviation Request

V

vardar3

#1
My supplier submitted a deviation request for a fine blank transfer tool. Dimensions are out and they stated they are not going to fix it because we provided no money for refurbishment (we would have to pay for it).

Anyways, I never PPAP'd to a customer with a deviation request, and wanted to ask about how I should proceed with the customer. Should I come out with it and indicate how we are controlling from making non conforming product?

What have been some of your experiences with PPAPing to the customer with supplier deviation request?
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#2
My supplier submitted a deviation request for a fine blank transfer tool. Dimensions are out and they stated they are not going to fix it because we provided no money for refurbishment (we would have to pay for it).

Anyways, I never PPAP'd to a customer with a deviation request, and wanted to ask about how I should proceed with the customer. Should I come out with it and indicate how we are controlling from making non conforming product?

What have been some of your experiences with PPAPing to the customer with supplier deviation request?
Your supplier should have discussed this and gotten it settled before PPAP submission. Submission of nonconforming parts without prior approval is reason for PPAP rejection, no matter where the cause of the problem might lie. As soon as the supplier was aware that the tool was incapable, you should have been notified. In these days of consolidations and plant closings, there are a lot of hard tools being moved around, and I've learned from experience that transferred tools are subject to what I call the Cracker Jack Syndrome--there's a surprise in every box.

You are now in the same position your supplier was in--you need to get this settled before submitting your PPAP. A lot depends on design responsibility and who owns the tool. Whomever that is should be apprised of the situation and given a choice--change the specifications or pay to have the tool refurbished.
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#3
Is it useable out of tolerance?

If it is not there is no question.

If it is then think about cost benefit.


Also think about why the supplier did not communicate with you and do you want a supplier like this
 
D

DrM2u

#4
I cannot agree more with Jim and Howard! Here are some of my thoughts to add to this discussion:

I have never submitted or approved a PPAP with a deviation REQUEST attached to it. It means that the planning process is not completed and that any differences from requirements have not been settled. What if the request is not approved? How does that affect the PPAP and all the work done prior to submittal?

Another thought is 'what is a deviation request?'. To me, an approved deviation is a TEMPORARY approval to deviate from the specifications until either the specifications change or the tool/process is corrected. A deviation should have a limit of time and/or quantity of parts large enough to allow for the necessary changes to take place. Continuing the thought, a PPAP with an attached deviation is implicitly a 'temporary' PPAP, an exercise that should be done once more when the tool is changed. In lucky cases, the design is changed and the PPAP stands as submitted; however, how often have one succeeded in getting a design changed? Telling an engineer that his design is flawed is like telling a mother that her child is fuggly and dumb like a door nail.

In conclusion, all the deviations from the print specifications should be settled prior to submittal and/or approval of a PPAP. So, either the tool owned should repair the tool or the design owner should change the design. The two entities should collaborate to identify the best (read 'cost effective') alternative that does not affect the product (fit, form and function) and the customer.
 
A

amit_rd

#5
In addition to what other elsmarians have pointed, I want to bring a different dimension:

"we provided no money for refurbishment (we would have to pay for it)" ---- This indicates that this issue was raised by the supplier earlier - If this is true then I see it as a gap from your organization. Moreover knowing this gap only during PPAP also indicates that your organization had insufficient control over this supplier during the APQP process else this problem would have been identified earlier.

I recommend transparency while communicating with your customer because at times all criticalities are known only to the end users.


This reminds me that "Customer Focus" can not be achieved without having "Mutually beneficial supplier relationship"
 
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