PPAP - what exactly it is?

Blaz123

Involved In Discussions
Hi all,

yesterday we had 'heated' discussion with our external trainer about what exactly PPAP process is? In general I'm very familiar with the PPAP (Production Part Approval Process) or VDA2 process, but again, what exactly PPAP in fact is? What exactly is a customer (SQA) role in PPAP process, beside to generate PPAP requirements?

I would really like to see, what are your views on this topic. Later on I will try to present what exactly our disagreement was.
 

Golfman25

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My view is that the formal term "PPAP" seems to have been concocted by the Auto industry and then stolen and used by others. The autos put out a book on in it that we follow to complete everything to their liking. As posts on this site will attest, some is good, some is suspect. As my other non-auto customers have adopted the PPAP nomenclature, I always have to figure out how "automotive" they want to be. They actually put very little thought into it and regurgitate what they learned in some class somewhere.

If you go back before the auto gurus took over, ppap was relatively simple -- what to you need to be comfortable enough to prove that the parts are manufacturable and will work. Way back then, a dimensional layout was generally enough in most cases.
 

Kronos147

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[/begin rant]
We have an aerospace customer that is insisting that instead of only process-based entries on our PFMEA (i.e. end mill the part), we need to list each and every characteristic/dimension on the control plan and add failure mode and contingencies.

We have had several discussions about the usefulness of this to both organizations, and even pointed out that the customer will not provide us the DFMEA, to no avail. Each characteristic is still required on the PFMEA by our customer.
[/end rant]
 

John Predmore

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From the first edition PPAP manual (published Jan 1, 1993):
"The purpose of PPAP is to determine if all customer engineering design record and specification requirements are properly understood by the supplier and that the process has the potential to produce product consistently meeting these requirements during an actual production run at the quoted production rate."

The American Industry Action Group (AIAG) was founded in 1982, and became the standard-bearer for automotive quality in the USA. I worked at General Motors at the time. I remember QS9000 was rolled out by the Automotive Big Three in roughly the same timeframe (1994).

I also remember part of the original appeal of PPAP was suppliers at all levels in the industry could follow standardized requirements and formats, which would be acceptable to all American automotive customers. Before that, there was a hodge podge of different reporting requirements and formats.
 

Blaz123

Involved In Discussions
John, great answer! What is the customer role in the PPAP process, beside to define PPAP requirements?
 

John Predmore

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In the original PPAP procedure, there were 5 different levels of PPAP reporting requirements that the customer would dictate, based on perceived risk, when the purchase order was placed.

I remember that level 1 was Part Submission Warrant only, which was not much more than today's Certificate of Conformity from the supplier, promising that all requirements were fulfilled. There was an implicit requirement in every PPAP case, that the data backing up the PSW was to be retained on file at the supplier, in case there ever was a discrepancy or a quality problem.

Wikipedia has a description of the different levels of PPAP package. Level 2 or Level 3 were the most commonly requested PPAP levels for simple or COTS components . As a GM product design engineer, and later as a Supplier Quality Engineer, it was my responsibility to review the PPAP submission, and approve or reject. While the customer's technical review of submitted data was time-consuming, PPAP was an enabler for the philosophy of Advanced Product Quality Planning, consistent with pushing responsibility for quality to the source, and definitely saved time and reduced the Cost of Quality overall. PPAP enabled the industry to largely eliminate incoming inspection, at the customer.
 

Blaz123

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As a GM product design engineer, and later as a Supplier Quality Engineer, it was my responsibility to review the PPAP submission, and approve or reject.

All correct and now we are geting there...What exactly did you approve or reject with your signature?
 

John Predmore

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As an approver, the supplier demonstrated capability to produce conforming product, in my judgement, being knowledgeable about the product and its requirements.
 

Blaz123

Involved In Discussions
So basically you confirmed, that all customer requirement are understandable to the supplier and that he fulfill all those requirements, is this correct? With this confirmation on PSW did you then approve supplier's serial production?
 

Miner

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Admin
Approval of a PPAP in automotive did approve serial production plus provided approval for the supplier to be paid for tooling.
 
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