Definition Predictive vs. Preventive Maintenance - TS 16949 Clause 7.5.1 - Definitions of

S

Stevenli

#1
Dear all,

how to understand predictive maintenance in TS2 7.5.1? what's the difference with preventive maintenance? and the most important is how to implement it?

Thank you very much
steven
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#2
An old post for starters:

Posted by Roger Eastin on Monday, 27 October 1997, at 5:16 p.m., in response to Predictive maintenance methods, posted by Felix cruz on Tuesday, 21 October 1997, at 3:06 p.m.

Predictive maintenance methods mentioned in the QS9 standard are identified by the type of equipment you are operating. If you have machinery that uses items such as gear boxes, then you should consider having vibration analysis done on them (if they are considered key manufacturing equipment). Here the analysis would detect gear wear or possible fractures of the gears. If you have equipment that uses control boards which contain electronic circuits, then you need to look at IR testing of the circuits. This analysis would detect "hot spots" on the circuit which may mean that a component is beginning to break down. If the equipment you are running uses lubricating fluids such as oil, then you would look at using a lab to do fluid analysis. Here you would look for oil breakdown or contamination levels. If your equipment uses perishable tooling such as drill or milling bits, you would set up a program to measure tool wear to anticipate failure. For the first three methods, outside companies can do this. You could probably do this last one. (You could even track MTBF of these parts in order to improve wear by using different vendors, different coatings of bits,etc.)
 
E

energy

#3
Ts2?

Stevenli said:
Dear all,

how to understand predictive maintenance in TS2 7.5.1? what's the difference with preventive maintenance? and the most important is how to implement it?

Thank you very much
steven
Steven,

"Predictive" seems, to me, another term for "Preventive". If you have a Preventive Maintenance "Process", I wouldn't sweat it. Another standard making its presence known by changing the accepted terminolgy? :bonk:
 
C

Craig H.

#4
energy said:
Steven,

"Predictive" seems, to me, another term for "Preventive". If you have a Preventive Maintenance "Process", I wouldn't sweat it. Another standard making its presence known by changing the accepted terminolgy? :bonk:
At the risk of spouting gobbledygook (sp?) here is my take on it.

Predictive maintenance is indeed preventive maintenance, but all preventive maintenance is not predictive. In other words, predictive uses data gathered from the equipment (wear, vibration, etc.) to optimize the interval between instances of a specific maintenance task.

For instance: Why shut down right now to do prev. maint., when predict. maintenance (data gathered) tells us we can go another 100 hours?

Or: It does not matter what the manual says, the oil analysis tells us that the main bearings are toast, and if we don't shut down now, we will be replacing more than bearings... (wham!!! chunka chunka).

JMO

Craig
 
Likes: db
#5
Craig H. said:
At the risk of spouting gobbledygook (sp?) here is my take on it.

Predictive maintenance is indeed preventive maintenance, but all preventive maintenance is not predictive. In other words, predictive uses data gathered from the equipment (wear, vibration, etc.) to optimize the interval between instances of a specific maintenance task.

For instance: Why shut down right now to do prev. maint., when predict. maintenance (data gathered) tells us we can go another 100 hours?

Or: It does not matter what the manual says, the oil analysis tells us that the main bearings are toast, and if we don't shut down now, we will be replacing more than bearings... (wham!!! chunka chunka).

JMO

Craig
I've had companies that have used MTBF and other measures as part of their predictive maintenance program. Does this fit in as well in your definition Craig?
 
C

Craig H.

#6
db said:
I've had companies that have used MTBF and other measures as part of their predictive maintenance program. Does this fit in as well in your definition Craig?

Without a doubt...
 
E

energy

#7
I buy that

Craig H. said:
For instance: Why shut down right now to do prev. maint., when predict. maintenance (data gathered) tells us we can go another 100 hours?

Craig
Let's take my car as an example. The manufacturer requires that I change the oil every 3K miles. Should I analyze the oil and based on the results, extend the intervals an extra 1 or 2 K miles? Do I know more than the equipment manufacturer? And, do I spend big bucks on analysis vs. following the Manufacturer's recommendations. I don't know. If the Customer requires it, charge them more per unit? :vfunny:
 
#8
energy said:
Let's take my car as an example. The manufacturer requires that I change the oil every 3K miles. Should I analyze the oil and based on the results, extend the intervals an extra 1 or 2 K miles? Do I know more than the equipment manufacturer? And, do I spend big bucks on analysis vs. following the Manufacturer's recommendations. I don't know. If the Customer requires it, charge them more per unit? :vfunny:
My thinking:

If you change your oil, based on the manufacturer's requirements, then it would be preventive

If you change your oil, based on the analsis of the oil then it would be predictive.

The question is should we really worry about the difference?
 
R

Randy Stewart

#9
For the example of the oil change, no don't worry about it. However, when looking at high speed bearings, older equipment (i.e. stamping presses) the oil sampling is a great idea. The OEM may state that a main bearing should last 2000 hrs of operation. If I know that I operate at the high end of the operating envelope (over tonnage, faster cycles, etc.) I want to have my hydraulic oil sampled. It may alert me to other issues as well, oil contamination, heat, etc.
OEM recommendations are based on testing an field feedback under "normal" operating conditions. Depending on some of the other factors, age, operation environment, etc. the need for other means of "predicting" maintenance may be necessary.
 
E

energy

#10
Getting clearer by the hour

Randy Stewart said:
For the example of the oil change, no don't worry about it. However, when looking at high speed bearings, older equipment (i.e. stamping presses) the oil sampling is a great idea. The OEM may state that a main bearing should last 2000 hrs of operation. If I know that I operate at the high end of the operating envelope (over tonnage, faster cycles, etc.) I want to have my hydraulic oil sampled. It may alert me to other issues as well, oil contamination, heat, etc.
OEM recommendations are based on testing an field feedback under "normal" operating conditions. Depending on some of the other factors, age, operation environment, etc. the need for other means of "predicting" maintenance may be necessary.
I guess if I'm using the equipment at the edge of its operating parameters, I can expect earlier failures. I would be looking for alternative equipment that can operate the way I want it to without "pushing the envelope. But I understand the idea behind it and if I can do that, then Stevenli certainly can! :vfunny:
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
M TS 16949 Clause 7.5.1.4 Preventive and Predictive Maintenance - Requirements Scope IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
T Preventive Tool Maintenance - Preventive and Predictive Maintenance requirements Manufacturing and Related Processes 7
D How to interpret TS Clause 7.5.1.4 Preventive and Predictive Maintenance? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
M Definition Predictive Maintenance vs Preventive Maintenance - Definitions Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 3
D Definition Preventive Maintenance vs. Predictive Maintenance - Distinction between Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 20
R Definition Preventive vs. Predictive Maintenance - What is the difference? TS 16949 - 7.5.1.4. Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 11
F Preventive and Predictive Maintenance - Benchmarking Partner Benchmarking 6
F QS-9000 Clause 4.9.g.1 - Preventive Maintenance - Tool Wear Predictive Maintenance QS-9000 - American Automotive Manufacturers Standard 1
M Preventive and Predictive Maintenance - Information on procedures relating to 4.9.g.1 QS-9000 - American Automotive Manufacturers Standard 16
kedarg6500 Corrective Action (CA) vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) Preventive Action and Continuous Improvement 18
J CQI-7 - ISO/TS 16949 Implementation Guide and preventive and predictive IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
J Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discussion Preventive Action and Continuous Improvement 177
Q Validation of Predictive Models of Yield Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 19
S Predictive Maintenance Format / Example Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 4
A Predictive Model Development (Regression?) Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 5
H Statistical Models for Predictive Management of Software Processes Software Quality Assurance 2
R Preventative Maintenance - Moving to a Predictive Maintenance Program Manufacturing and Related Processes 10
M Predictive Maintenance Data Collection IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
G Predictive Maintenance Services IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
K Monitoring Tool Wear for Predictive Maintenance - Data evaluation methodogy IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
K Using the Predictive Index for Job Candidates Career and Occupation Discussions 14
K Predictive Quality Indicators - Manufacture of semiconductor optoelectronic products Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 2
Q Predictive Maintenance Suggestions IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 14
M Predictive Maintenance - Confused about what can be considered predictive maintenance IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
H What is Predictive Maintenance - MFTB Collection (downtime interval of equipment) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
L Predictive Maintenance activities - Please review my proposed form/criteria IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
Marc Predictive Maintenance? GM pitches "smart" cars to cut back on discounts World News 2
R Predictive Maintenance for Plastic Injection Machine IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
M Predictive Maintenance vs SPC (Statistical Process Control) Data Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 1
C How to develop an Equipment / Machinery FMEA - Remember the key word: Predictive FMEA and Control Plans 7
D How to setup a system for Predictive Maintenance QS-9000 - American Automotive Manufacturers Standard 8
C If it doesn't prevent a non-conformance, is it a preventive action? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
S Are there ISO9001:2015 Requirements for Preventive Maintenance? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 36
R Evaluating the need for preventive action Preventive Action and Continuous Improvement 3
GURU SDI Rust preventive oil mixed with kerosene Problem Solving, Root Cause Fault and Failure Analysis 2
B Stakeholder Initiated Corrective and Preventive Action Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 5
B Corrective and Preventive Action (CAPA) A Key Process of the Quality Management System Dec 17... Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 0
Jimmy123 FMEA - Preventive vs Detection Control FMEA and Control Plans 7
D Preventive Maintenance Implementation 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 5
M Minitab tool to evaluate PM (Preventive Maintenance) process Using Minitab Software 6
M Training in 8D Problem Solving as a Preventive Action? Problem Solving, Root Cause Fault and Failure Analysis 9
J If Corrective and Preventive Action were truly Effective IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
R Preventive Action - confusing ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 5
T Proactive / Preventive Post Market Surveillance question ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 4
Q Preventive Action - How to call the prevention when there is not a clause ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
M Preventive Maintenance Spreadsheet in Excel Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 2
somashekar The Preventive Action Demystified ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 8
Q Evaluating Effectiveness of a Preventive Action after Closure Preventive Action and Continuous Improvement 7
A Preventive Action and Risk Assessment Audit Process Audits and Layered Process Audits 5
K CAPA (Corrective and Preventive Action) - ISO 13485 Nonconformance and Corrective Action 1

Similar threads

Top Bottom