Preliminary/Prototype/Production - Transition of Documentation stage to stage

Manix

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#1
How do you guys deal with the transition from a preliminary process doc to a production doc?

Is there a clear distinction? I ask this because, we produce products that by there very nature are very similar in design. Therefore processes very rarely change between the first production run to full production!?

Can someone please clarify what the distinctions are?

I have some preliminary docs from our factory, they look very much like what the full production ones will look like!

Is this just me being dim? Or does anyone else need this clarity? :eek:
 
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Caster

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#2
Poorly

Manix said:
How do you guys deal with the transition from a preliminary process doc to a production doc? Is this just me being dim? Or does anyone else need this clarity? :eek:
We deal with it poorly.

I think the idea is that in prototype and pre production runs, the risks are higher and your process capability is not yet known. Thus one would expect higher frequencies of inspection and testing.

After the process proves capable, one would expect to see inspection and testing frequencies reduced on the production documents.

It's all we can do to keep up with production control plans, never mind the others.

I suspect this is a very common problem.
 

Howard Atkins

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#3
Caster said:
We deal with it poorly.

I think the idea is that in prototype and pre production runs, the risks are higher and your process capability is not yet known. Thus one would expect higher frequencies of inspection and testing.

After the process proves capable, one would expect to see inspection and testing frequencies reduced on the production documents.
There is a requirement for 3 levels of CP, prototype, pre launch and production.
The prototype CP deals with the part and not the process as you have not yet completed the design of the process and you are controlling it through the part.
The pre-launch, sometimes called GP12 for those with GM influence, is as Caster says controlling the process and the part with increased frequency and/or sample size until you have confidence in your process.
The situation is to define the cutoff point for the switch to the production CP, this should be defined as a function of parts or time.
To produce the pre launch is not a real problem as you can copy the production and change frequency/samples, or visa versa.

Caster said:
It's all we can do to keep up with production control plans, never mind the others.

I suspect this is a very common problem.
This is another question that we all have to live with :nopity:
 

Manix

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#4
Thanks you guys that gives a little more clarity.

However, as I say our products are all very similar, and the processes are very often the same. Therfore my point is, we usually know the best and most effective process even at the prototype phase!

As you build up experience in producing these products surely the risks are reduced anyway. Best practices are established etc! So is there still a requirement for a prototype CP?

I am becoming familiar with the GP12 procedure as we speak. However this procedure will apply to products that are fairly new to the organisation, so therfore maybe a good start to really start to come to grips with the whole three stage control plan.

:thanks:
 

Howard Atkins

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#5
The prototype stage is for real prototypes, maybe you don't have any and you go directly to the pre-launch stage
Generally most companies have similar parts and have a generic quality plan/ Control plan in which several parameter are changed according to the product

For example a plastic injection molding company will check during production cycle time, temperatures etc, make a visual inspection every X hours and measure 3 dimensions every Y hours.
This is the base and the variables change according to the part.
The GP12 is the same just X is smaller.

Does this make sense?
 
J

Jim Howe

#6
prototype processes

Howard Atkins said:
The prototype stage is for real prototypes, maybe you don't have any and you go directly to the pre-launch stage
Generally most companies have similar parts and have a generic quality plan/ Control plan in which several parameter are changed according to the product

For example a plastic injection molding company will check during production cycle time, temperatures etc, make a visual inspection every X hours and measure 3 dimensions every Y hours.
This is the base and the variables change according to the part.
The GP12 is the same just X is smaller.

Does this make sense?
I have mixed emotions on this :confused: , Howard. I guess it depends on the degree of sophistication of the prototype part/assembly. When we build a prototype the process is basically the same as for production.
1) burn parts
2) machine parts
3) fit parts
4) weld parts
5) etc.
Since these processes are well established and have documented procedures we keep our attention glued onto the part/assembly not the processes. We are, however, studying the setup of a complete R&D department so I am interested in your opinion. Can you clarify a little more? :thanx:
 

Manix

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#7
The QS9000 manual clearly states that the prototype control plan is concerned with the part & not the process:

I quote:

Prototype - A description of the dimensional measurements, material and performance tests occuring during the prototype build.

For me I find this hard to comprehend! As I review the prototype process it clearly represents production intent and I just want to add in all the controls that we would normally! Why not? Let's ensure everything is done right first time!

Again it appears that there is no one answer, so what I will do is continue to develop processes from the start aswell as monitoring the products characteristics.

About the only thing I am begining to comprehend with this issue is the purpose of the pre-launch control plan (GP12 in GM terms). Uncertainty and risk is higher at this stage, so let's check it more!

:frust: :frust: :frust:

Thank you for your advice and I will continue to monitor this thread to see if anyone else has anything to add! :thanx:
 
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