Preparation for the second year external audit.

L

lkodo

#1
As a consultant I was confronted to this case :
The auditor informed the company that for the following external audit in a year, only half of their processes will be audited. And the company of course focuses on them specially.
I didnt know that it would be a sampling game?
Your experiences ?
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Re: preparation for the second year external audit

I'm not sure about why 'half' the processes would be selected - but sampling is very normal practice in a surveillance audit. Auditing tends to be a sample, however surveillance audits are simply a snapshot of the degree to which the system is maintained, post registration. They are subject to reduced audit time and there isn't much opportunity to look at everything. Indeed, clients wouldn't pay for it, anyway! Further, the client's internal audit program is there to ensure all processes and their controls are effective, implemented and compliant.

As a consultant, are you not familiar with the processes of a certification body? BTW, you might not want to refer to it as a sampling 'game'......it could give the wrong impression to those who take auditing seriously!!
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#3
As a consultant I was confronted to this case :
The auditor informed the company that for the following external audit in a year, only half of their processes will be audited. And the company of course focuses on them specially.
I didnt know that it would be a sampling game?
Your experiences ?
I'm surprised that you're surprised at this. Surveillance audits always cover just parts of the full system. During the 3-year certificate cycle all parts of the whole system are completely covered at least once, while some parts (such as management review, internal audits, and CA/PA) are generally covered in every audit.
 
L

lkodo

#5
Please try to stay correct. I am not external auditor.
My concern is that the next processes to be audited are known by them and are the only ones they are focusing on, and a lot of nonconformances exist, really. If tghey were not told, they could go on the improvement pattern for the whole system.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#6
Exactly my point....Common, global, world-wide practice by accredited 3rd party CB's is to PLAN and create and AUDIT PROGRAM, providing that information to the CLIENT/AUDITEE....This is, has not been, and will not be a secret, surprise activity.....It would be improper to do otherwise

I was well within correctness when I commented about an indicated lack of competence with the subject of the discussion. You are advising and I guess getting paid for knowledge and expertise in the subject of MS and systems certification and displayed a lack of knowledge about one the the most basic aspects of the certification process...Competence is the demonstrated ability to apply knowledge and skill....not happening according to the original post.

It's called being honest...
 
Last edited:

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#7
How can one be a management systems consultant if they don't have knowlege of basic practices?:confused:
Please leave out the direct personal challenges. If you want to participate in the topic discussion, fine. All you are doing is derailing this thread and making an issue of a visitor's credentials. We were all new to this stuff at one time.
 
B

Boring

#9
One specific comment from an auditor's perspective: While it is true that it is a sampling process, and the auditee is provided with an audit schedule, there are many times when other areas are "touched upon" during the performance of an audit. An example - While reviewing customer complaints (covered every audit), I notice that there seems to be a pattern of late delivery complaints.:mad: As a conscientious auditor, I will probably ask if this was identified as a trend and what is being done about it. If it appears to be ignored, I'll probably make it a point of reviewing that process that appears to be substandard, even if it wasn't on the audit plan.:yes: This often results in confusion and whining:confused: since "that wasn't on the audit plan."

Remember - the audit plan is a guideline. A good auditor will follow the audit trail to wherever it may lead to ensure that the system should still be registered. It should never be a game to try and outthink the auditor to enable slacking off on the system. After all - You wrote the requirements for your system, don't you want them followed all the time?
 
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