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Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures?

One procedure or two

  • One procedure

    Votes: 64 54.7%

  • Got one, changing to two

    Votes: 8 6.8%

  • Two procedures

    Votes: 44 37.6%

  • I need more than two for my system (OUCH!!)

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Total voters
    117
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Ajit Basrur

Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#211
#211
Re: Corrective Action (CA) and Preventive Action (PA) - One or Two Procedures?

This thread has really pointed out how difficult is it to understand its meaning. :cool:
 
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RoxaneB

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#212
#212
Re: Corrective Action (CA) and Preventive Action (PA) - One or Two Procedures?

Qualityalways said:
This thread has really pointed out how difficult is it to understand its meaning. :cool:
Click to expand...
I like to think that this thread has highlighted that even when there is debate and ambiguity within terminology, we all acknowledge the importance of developing a system that will work for the organization.

Does is really matter if one company has one procedure and another has two? Does it really matter if one company has CAPA combined in one process where another has a clear distinction between them?

At the end of the day, what is important, is having a system that works for you (i.e., effective), that is user-friendly and blocks the root causes in an efficient manner.

And if the system does that...it's not important how it's documented or how it's defined.
 
atitheya

atitheya

Quite Involved in Discussions
#214
#214
Re: Corrective Action (CA) and Preventive Action (PA) - One or Two Procedures?

Hi,

Generally we have been advising for two seperate procedures for Corrective Action and Preventive Action; and our clients have been maintaining them. I have seen and also have been working to combine the two procedures. In fact, depending on the organisation's characterstics, I think, 8.3 Control of Non Conforming Product can also be combined with these two to give a single documented procedure and one format for all three clauses, 8.3, 8.5.2, and 8.5.3 wherein the nature of nonconformity, wether actual or potential, its effect or possible effect, cause/s, immediate action, corrective action and / or preventive action as required may be described and records maintained.

What do the others think?

Best Regards
 
RoxaneB

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#215
#215
Re: Corrective Action (CA) and Preventive Action (PA) - One or Two Procedures?

atitheya said:
In fact, depending on the organisation's characterstics, I think, 8.3 Control of Non Conforming Product can also be combined with these two to give a single documented procedure and one format for all three clauses, 8.3, 8.5.2, and 8.5.3 wherein the nature of nonconformity, wether actual or potential, its effect or possible effect, cause/s, immediate action, corrective action and / or preventive action as required may be described and records maintained.
Click to expand...
Hello, atitheya...I see that you are relatively new to the Cove so if I have not already said this "Welcome!" :bigwave:

An organization's documentation can - and should - be written in such a way that represents their organization's culture, system and users. If combining the three-into-one works for them, go for it! :)

For my own organization, however, this does not work. Why? Because we have a business management system...not a quality management system.

Nonconforming product, to us, is just that...product that does not meet specifications. However, a nonconformance is any abnormal occurence be it product, process, operations, etc. Our process for corrective/preventive action addresses all nonconformances above and beyond product.

But that is us. Again...develop a system that works for you and document it accordingly.
 
atitheya

atitheya

Quite Involved in Discussions
#216
#216
Re: Corrective Action (CA) and Preventive Action (PA) - One or Two Procedures?

Thanks Beyette, I completely agree with you on the subject. The same is also reflected in my earlier post when I say that 'Generally we have been advising for two seperate procedures for Corrective Action and Preventive Action' and it is a thought for some companies where combining the three would be an effective approach, the basic idea being to lay down an effective business system that takes care of the quality and hence improvement in quality and business.

Best Regards
 
Q

qcman

Registered Visitor
#217
#217
Re: Corrective Action (CA) and Preventive Action (PA) - One or Two Procedures?

Huge thread but glad it's still going. Currently going ISO from QS and started reviewing the procedures today. Current corrective action procedure includes minimal preventive action language.At first I planned to make them 2 written procedures but after reading this thread I have second thoughts.What do you all think about expanding some of my preventive language currently there and leave it as one procedure? I was also thinking for the current CA form we use I could change the heading of it to have Corrective on top left and Preventive on top right.When filling one out the author circles which action it is where by I save having 2 different forms.
 
H

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#218
#218
Re: Corrective Action (CA) and Preventive Action (PA) - One or Two Procedures?

qcman said:
Huge thread but glad it's still going. Currently going ISO from QS and started reviewing the procedures today. Current corrective action procedure includes minimal preventive action language.At first I planned to make them 2 written procedures but after reading this thread I have second thoughts.What do you all think about expanding some of my preventive language currently there and leave it as one procedure? I was also thinking for the current CA form we use I could change the heading of it to have Corrective on top left and Preventive on top right.When filling one out the author circles which action it is where by I save having 2 different forms.
Click to expand...

One procedure and one form can certainly get the job done. Many folks do it that way. They are very similar. Just make sure the procedure is clear that preventive actions are undertaken to prevent to occurance of a failure or root cause, whereas corrective actions are to prevent the reoccurance of a failure or root cause.
 
T

TamTom

#219
#219
Re: Corrective Action (CA) and Preventive Action (PA) - One or Two Procedures?

Hello,

I think one procedure or as we do it- process description, can do it, but from my experience as internal auditor, it is difficult for the stuff to explain the differences and to show examples for preventive actions. One procedure should need a clear definition what is corrective and what preventive actions.

Tamara :eek:
 
Q

qcman

Registered Visitor
#220
#220
Re: Corrective Action (CA) and Preventive Action (PA) - One or Two Procedures?

I have written them up as seperate procedures in draft.After thinking about it my corrective action process has steps that I feel prevent should not have.Say I want to add rubber protection pads to a fixture to prevent nicks/scratches on parts.Should I have to (or need to) send the PA to my QA director for review,then he passes it on to the department head,then back to him for review/exceptance or rejection.What do you think?
 
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