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Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures?

One procedure or two

  • One procedure

    Votes: 64 54.7%
  • Got one, changing to two

    Votes: 8 6.8%
  • Two procedures

    Votes: 44 37.6%
  • I need more than two for my system (OUCH!!)

    Votes: 1 0.9%

  • Total voters
    117
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W

winchm

Mannix - it was Baldrick,
Cunning Planner
Location: Newport, South Wales, UK

RC Bettye and I Thanked him for sharing this simple and to the point approach - go to page 21 for original post :agree1:
 
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Manix

Get Involved!!!
Trusted Information Resource
Mannix - it was Baldrick,
Cunning Planner
Location: Newport, South Wales, UK

RC Bettye and I Thanked him for sharing this simple and to the point approach - go to page 21 for original post :agree1:
MMmm Thanks, but I don't think I want to visit this thread ever again, especially page 21!!!!!! So many conflicting arguments and interpretations of the written standards!

These standards were supposed to make things better weren't they? Recently this PA and CA debate + one about "The Process Approach" and the misinterpretations in that, are really making understanding and interpreting these things very difficult. Especially for someone who has a stinking cold and lacks the required 7-8 hours sleep like I do!

I think I will take my well earned holiday and try and come back fighting fit to tackle this crazy world of standardisation when I return!
 
A

amanbhai

can be one & at the same time can be two separate procedures.
Std does not ask for separate procedures? Correct me if i'm wrong.
 
T

TamTom

Hello,

2 points:

1. I really understad Manix by writing he will never visit the thread again, it is growing and growing without come to an conclusion, because there is none given by the standard.

2. I like the interpretation from BVQI thanks winchm, the BVQI lists what the Auditor will ask for and the lists for preventive and corrective action are quite different, what shows the difference between the topics.

I still prefere process flows, here I start from the top process Improvement (TS Chapter 8.5) and than go to the three sub proceses, CI, PA and CA (8.5.1, 8.5.3, 8.5.2)

Greetings from Germany

Tamara
 
B

Britman - 2012

I currently have two:

  • One within Corrective Action for Prevention of future problems (re-active)
  • One for Preventive review at contract review (pro-active)
 

Patricia Ravanello

Quite Involved in Discussions
My system has one procedure called "Corrective & Preventive Action and Continual Improvement"...these represent the 3 tools available to management to react to process performance metrics, or to nonconformances, so it makes sense to have them all in one procedure.

Let's say you start with a "Corrective" Action...when you flow it out, one of the final steps should be to ask yourself if the corrective action could be implemented somewhere as a "Preventive Action"...so the next page of the flow chart should take you to "Preventive Action" process.

To make sure that this happens, I created a Metrics DASHBOARD database to help keep Sr. Management focused and disciplined (and because I hate seeing them squirm and sweat during a surveillance audit).

In preparation for Management Review, they record the "Performance Status" of each metric (for which they are champion).

Based on that status, they answer the question, "Is Corrective Action necessary?"...if the answer is "YES", they hyperlink to the solution, and then, also answer the question, "Can this action be implemented elsewhere as a preventive measure?"....If the answer is yes...they link to the Preventive Action. (If the answer is "No", that's the end of the sequence).

If the answer to "Is corrective action necessary?" is NO, (which means their metric is on plan and/or meeting its stated objective), then they have to answer the question, "Is there an opportunity for continual improvement?" (you can't initiate a Continual Improvement unless your metric is meeting objective, and no actions are necessary - any action taken before you're meeting your objective is, by definition, "corrective", and not an improvement). If the answer is "YES", you hyperlink to the Continual Improvement. If the answer is "No", you answer the question "Why not?" (possible answers: "no resources currently available, no improvements identified, timing constraints, etc.), and that's the end of the sequence.

However, this demostrates to the auditors that Sr. Management is always assessing the opportunity for continual improvements, and reviewing if they are feasible, cost-efficient, and timely. It further hyperlinks them to all the Continual Improvement Actions that have been initiated...neat, tidy, readily accessible....Sr. Management knows right where to go to answer the auditor's question..."What Continual Improvement projects have you undertaken since the last audit?" and "Can you show me some of them?"

It's almost idiot-proof!
 
Last edited:
J

JaneB

Patricia,

This sounds like an excellent system - intelligent and practical, well done!

With your ref. to hyperlinks, it sounds like you have it operating in some kind of online system? Or perhaps that's just the process document.

To make sure that this happens, I created a Metrics DASHBOARD database to help keep Sr. Management focused and disciplined (and because I hate seeing them squirm and sweat during a surveillance audit).
Yup, I hate seeing them squirm too (except occasionally if they richly deserve to do so). :D

The questions you've set out are the sort of thing that any good manager/s would be doing of course, but not necessarily in a structured fashion, nor necessarily keeping records. Whereas setting it out like this achieves the requirements & gives the kind of structure that makes it dead easy for them to follow the 'path of righteousness' that you want 'em to walk down :) plus it ties up the records so they're available and clear.

Really good stuff! :applause:
 
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