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Preventive Action should not / cannot be taken when rectifying a problem

Preventive action should not / cannot be taken when rectifying a problem

  • True

    Votes: 12 44.4%

  • False

    Votes: 15 55.6%
  • Total voters
    27
J

Jerome

#11
#11
The corrective action is to 'repair' the tangible item.
The preventive action is the assessing and adjusting of the proces that caused the need for repair.

I would think that a corrective action should at least be followed by an investigation if a preventive action is required as well.
 
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L

lennon121

#12
#12
To prevent reoccurance is "corrective action" according to standards but again it doesn't matter how we understand it as long as it gets done.
 
C

ChrissieO

#13
#13
I am probably going to be shot down in flames for this as I have been before for my opinion on this :argue:, the way I see it is............

Corrective Action comes in 2 parts, firstly the fix (sticking plaster/bandaid) and then the RCA, possibly an FMEA and then a control plan to prevent it/or similar happening again.

Preventive Action is the risk based decision making before implementing anynew process, service, product etc, which should include a process flow, and FMEA and a control plan to prevent it ever happening in the first place.

Chrissie


....................taxi for Chrissie
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jen Kirley

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#14
#14
ChrissieO said:
I am probably going to be shot down in flames for this as I have been before for my opinion on this :argue:, the way I see it is............

Corrective Action comes in 2 parts, firstly the fix (sticking plaster/bandaid) and then the RCA, possibly an FMEA and then a control plan to prevent it/or similar happening again.

Prevetnive Action is the risk based decision making before implementing anynew process, service, product etc, which should include a process flow, and FMEA and a control plan to prevent it ever happening in the first place.

Chrissie


....................taxi for Chrissie
Click to expand...
You're safe with me! :D I would only observe that these activities may also be simple prevention. So the only difference between them is being done to avoid problems or being done to resolve problems. Either way, to prevent is to prevent whether on Monday, Tuesday etc. The only question is what got it started. That too often makes people think there are more nuances to this kind of thing than there are.
 
C

ChrissieO

#15
#15
Jennifer Kirley said:
You're safe with me! :D I would only observe that these activities may also be simple prevention. So the only difference between them is being done to avoid problems or being done to resolve problems. Either way, to prevent is to prevent whether on Monday, Tuesday etc. The only question is what got it started. That too often makes people think there are more nuances to this kind of thing than there are.
Click to expand...
Phew :thanx:

C
 
Randy

Randy

Super Moderator
#16
#16
If there were no problem then what are you trying to prevent?;)

Doesn't the need to take preventive action indicate that there "IS" a problem?
 
C

ChrissieO

#17
#17
Randy said:
If there were no problem then what are you trying to prevent?;)

Doesn't the need to take preventive action indicate that there "IS" a problem?
Click to expand...
I don't see it like that, your preventve action would come from your FMEA & control plan at planning stage in the same way you would look at a risk assessment in safety or environmental impact.

You do a risk assessment to prevent an accident or incident, you conduct risk management for process, service or product planning to try and ascertain any foreseable failures and then put controls in place to stop it happening in the first place.

You can't prevent something that has already happened.

Chrissie
 
J

Jerome

#18
#18
ChrissieO said:
I am probably going to be shot down in flames for this as I have been before for my opinion on this :argue:, the way I see it is............

Corrective Action comes in 2 parts, firstly the fix (sticking plaster/bandaid) and then the RCA, possibly an FMEA and then a control plan to prevent it/or similar happening again.

Preventive Action is the risk based decision making before implementing anynew process, service, product etc, which should include a process flow, and FMEA and a control plan to prevent it ever happening in the first place.

Chrissie


....................taxi for Chrissie
Click to expand...
I suddenly remember: This is how my auditor explained it to me...
Thanks for reminding me to 'fix' this non-conformance :notme:
 
Jim Wynne

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#19
#19
Randy said:
If there were no problem then what are you trying to prevent?;)

Doesn't the need to take preventive action indicate that there "IS" a problem?
Click to expand...
It all depends on how "problem" is defined. If there's a broader definition of "problem" than "nonconformity," you're right, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, the standard doesn't recognize potential nonconformities as "problems." The standard expects us to do prevention after a nonconformity has happened, but doesn't allow the activity to be referred to as preventive in those cases.
 
Jim Wynne

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#20
#20
ChrissieO said:
You can't prevent something that has already happened.
Click to expand...
But you can prevent it from happening again, but that's not prevention in the eyes of the standard. If you're dealing with ISO/TS 16949 instead of ISO 9001, the efforts extended to processes other than the one in which the nonconformity occurred can't be characterized as preventive either.
 
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