Print Requirements

J.Enger

Involved In Discussions
#1
So I have a question about manufacturing a cast part. This may not be the correct forum for this, if so, please remove it.

We are manufacturing a part that is made from a casting on its own print (Note 1 on the machine print stats " Machine from 32-0123-1 Casting."). When we find porosity, on the machining print there is no Spec callout for castings ( AMS2175, MIL-C-6021, etc) so do we go back to the casting print for allowances of the porosity or do we allow the porosity through as there is no call out on the machining print. If so, what about other requirements from the cast print. An example is the specification called out for the casting inspection states that machined features from the casting must be penetrant inspected to ensure there are no issues with the part.
 
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Mike S.

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#3
I'd look at the casting print.

Of course some porosity may not be apparent until machined unless x-rayed.
 

J.Enger

Involved In Discussions
#4
The casting is purchased from a Sole Source supplier for our customer. The issue we have is the porosity usually shows itself when we machine the casting, and it fails the requirements of AMS2175 for surface discontinuities, but is acceptable size under the radiographic requirements, hence we get "its a latent defect" reply from the casting house.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#5
The casting is purchased from a Sole Source supplier for our customer.
In other words, this is a "directed buy"? You have no options as to casting supplier selection? Is your company paying the casting supplier? If the answer to each question is "yes," you're in a tough spot that shouldn't have been agreed to in the first place. That being said, one more question: Do the castings meet the requirements of the casting print?
The issue we have is the porosity usually shows itself when we machine the casting, and it fails the requirements of AMS2175 for surface discontinuities, but is acceptable size under the radiographic requirements, hence we get "its a latent defect" reply from the casting house.
This is the primary reason you should never accept a directed-buy arrangement for castings. It's like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates--you never know what you're going to get. Given the casting supplier is a sole source and probably knows it, they will stand their ground despite incontrovertible evidence of nonconformity. What do they have to lose? You need to get your customer involved because for practical purposes, it's their their supplier, not yours.
 

J.Enger

Involved In Discussions
#6
That being said, one more question: Do the castings meet the requirements of the casting print?
Yes, the castings meet the requirements of the casting print. Its when we machine it and the subsurface nonconformities arise and we have to scrap out the parts. Sometimes we can get a casting house to give us an RMA for Credit on the cost of the casting, but not the time and effort put into machining it.

You need to get your customer involved because for practical purposes, it's their their supplier, not yours.
We have tried that, and the customer doesn't get much positive feedback from the casting house as well. They have tried sourcing other foundries, but no one seems to want the jobs.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#8
Yes, the castings meet the requirements of the casting print. Its when we machine it and the subsurface nonconformities arise and we have to scrap out the parts.
Let me ask a different way. Do the conditions you find when machining violate the requirements of the casting print?
 

J.Enger

Involved In Discussions
#9
Once we machine and the porosity is exposed, it does violate the requirements of the casting print. Their response to this is that they are selling the cast part, not the machine cast part and as they meet the requirements prior to machining, they are not liable for them.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#10
Once we machine and the porosity is exposed, it does violate the requirements of the casting print. Their response to this is that they are selling the cast part, not the machine cast part and as they meet the requirements prior to machining, they are not liable for them.
That's BS. Tell them and the customer that you're going to start rejecting things when latent defects are discovered. Then do it. They might tell you to poop in your hat, but again that's the hazard of dealing with a directed source for these things.
 
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