Thanks for the replies. I gather there is no real solution to this probelm as having any disclaimer in the document about avalidity is in contravention of 4.2.3 and 4.2.3 g.
Hi kgott,
Actually, I disagree that the solutions offered are a violation of 4.2.3 and 4.2.3g.
4.2.3 Control of documents
Documents required by the quality management system shall be controlled. Records are a special type of document and shall be controlled according to the requirements given in 4.2.4.
If you are controlling the master electronic copy, you are meeting the above.
g) to prevent the unintended use of obsolete documents, and to apply suitable identification to them if they are retained for any purpose.
If you are directing people to the master copy, you are meeting the above. By stating that printed copies are uncontrolled, therefore they may not be the latest version, you are directing people to check a printed copy against the master copy, to ensure the correct version is being used.
Just because a document is downloaded or printed off in hard copy does not mean that its out of date.
Totally agree. Again, that's another reason that stating a printed copy is good for 24 hours is not the "best" way. Who is to say that the printed copy is now out of date because 24 hours have elapsed?
Downloading or printing off documents is always going to happen for a multitude of reasons. Having something like sharepoint reduces the need for such activity but does not eliminate it.
Yes, agreed again. Yet another reason to adopt a "Printed copies are not controlled" method. Very hard to control every single person in the company and keep someone from not only printing a copy of something, but also not disposing of the document, which means printed copies of documents may end up on a press, on a shipping dock, at an operators station, etc. In most any method of control other than "Printed copies are not controlled" you have a potential violation just waiting to be found.
I think i'll stick with my own suggestion as just because they are printed or downloaded does not mean they are out of date and therefore obsolete.
You do need to do what you feel you can manage but I think that your intial method is on the mark. You stated that you currently employ a "Printed copies are not controlled" method. Obviously I am one that promotes that method.
Perhaps what might also work is that when a documented changes then the changes have to be communciated, perhaps this is time to say that all existing electronic and hard copies are obsolete as of xyz date and time so putting print date in the document may work if this can be done as Jennifer alludes to.
If you could guarantee every person removes every printed copy lying under someone's pile of papers, in a rarely used job program book, etc. then this would work. At the end of the day, even though you may have a good (on paper - pardon the pun) system to control your documents, it is ultimately left up to people to ensure that the old documents are removed. One missed document can lead to a nonconformance.
Ultimately, it's a culture thing. I don't have the luxury of knowing that every single document will be removed because let's face it, how can I know how many printed copies are floating around out in the shop, in the engineering offices, at plant 3, or wherever? The "best" way for me to ensure that we don't use an obsolete document is to develop the culture that everyone goes to the specified location on the intranet and work from those documents. If they choose to print something, well, the "Printed copies are not controlled" works. It's a culture thing though, as everyone would need to ensure they always pull the latest data/document from the server or check a printed copy against the latest document on the server.
