Prints / Drawings - What Problems and Experiences Have You Had with Prints?

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#1
Inverted Delta - What does an inverted delta on a print represent? is an interesting thread. Over the years I've had some interesting experiences with prints. Once, during the early 1990's a print called out a rubber manufacturer, a small company in Chicago, for what was essentially a neoprene gasket. A company called me for help because DESC wouldn't accept the parts a company made ('spares' under a small business set aside contract). The rubber company specified on the print was in Chicago but had gone out of business years earlier. To get the print changed would be a 1 year plus process with the complication that since only the manufacturer was cited on the print (no composition, performance or other related criteria), no one could actually say what the gasket was made of. The print was from about 1952. The company eventually defaulted on the contract, took a loss and trashed the ones they had made because the cost and time to go through the process would have eaten up any profit.

A second interesting experience, only a few years back, was where the supplier got Chinese prints from the customer. It took almost 2 months to get the prints translated, and even then there was a fair amount of guessing.

Just wondering... What interesting / unusual experiences have you had with prints?
 
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Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Just wondering... What interesting / unusual experiences have you had with prints?
I used to work for a company that made equipment for the petrochemical industry. Circular bolt hole pattern specifications on our drawings were always accompanied by a note: "STR CL." Everyone in our company knew what that meant. We got very busy and decided to outsource some of our work. Our supplier noticed that note too and produced the bolt hole patterns according their own interpretation resulting in a multiple thousands of dollars disaster. You see, in our world STR CL meant "Straddle Center Line", our supplier thought "Straight Center Line."

"Customer communication" in our company got a total new meaning from then on....

Stijloor.
 

Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#3
I was reading this report from NTSB (National transport Safety Board) for an in-flight seperation of a right wing.

They concluded -

Methods for control of the cooling rate after welding are not specified in either the engineering drawing of the fitting or the welding specification, CW-lS, noted in the drawing. The Safety Board believes that the manufacturing procedures should provide adequate instructions for the proper control of the cooling rate. However, the detrimental effects of the high hardness zones near the welds may be substantially reduced or eliminated by heat treatment of the fittings after welding.
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#4
Once while reviewing a Taiwanese supplier's PPAP submission I ran across a tier-two paint test report that was in Chinese. I contacted the tier one supplier and told them that everything had to be in English, so someone hastily scribbled translations on the report (attached) and faxed it back to me. I was left to try and determine what "No egregious puddle" meant. I examined the parts and indeed found nothing that I would describe as an egregious puddle and moved on.
 

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Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
In our contract machining business we would sometimes gets engineering drawings from customers labeled "Interpret according to Y14.100-[year of version]"

I, of course, thought they meant "ASME Y14.100" (which they usually did), but even a cursory examination of one such drawing turned up many discrepancies from the actual Standard (the commercial successor to MIL-STD-100 Military Standard Drawing Practices.)

As an integral part of our Contract Review, I sent a list of these discrepancies to the customer, asking for clarification.

The one response I got from the billion dollar-a-year sales company's Quality Manager was "What are you talking about?"

I explained, in typical "Wes Bucey overkill," about the Standard, that it was in fact, part of a series of Standards that replaced MIL-STD-100, and that, although the face of the drawing had a prominent box which said, "Interpret according to Y14.100-[year of version]" the drawing had various discrepancies from that Standard which made certain features ambiguous.

His response was, "I don't know what you are talking about. Let me get a copy of the drawing."

When he had a copy of the drawing, he then called in the company's Chief Engineer, who was similarly mystified, even though his signature was in the approval block of the drawing.

The upshot was that these folks bought preprinted drawing sheets from a supply company with borders and blocks and "boilerplate language" which included the Y14.100 notice as well as tolerances. Some lowly draftsman merely copied all that stuff into the company's CAD program as the template for printing out drawings.

This billion dollar company did not have a single copy anywhere (controlled or uncontrolled) of the Standard, nor of its predecessor, MIL-STD-100. No one had EVER coordinated the engineers and designers to produce uniform drawings and many of the draftsmen were using CAD programs and leaving dimensions at default 3 decimal places which resulted in products being built to much tighter tolerances (and higher costs) than designers intended because producers did not question the pre-printed tolerance blocks on the drawing sheets when they were coupled with the default 3 decimal dimensions on the CAD drawing.

It's not only the small guys who mess up on the details.

Oh., by the way, that company was registered to ISO9001:1994:notme:
 

Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#6
Once while reviewing a Taiwanese supplier's PPAP submission I ran across a tier-two paint test report that was in Chinese. I contacted the tier one supplier and told them that everything had to be in English, so someone hastily scribbled translations on the report (attached) and faxed it back to me. I was left to try and determine what "No egregious puddle" meant. I examined the parts and indeed found nothing that I would describe as an egregious puddle and moved on.
Jim,

Thats not Chinese but is Japanese. It is pronounced as -

著しい溜まりのない事 = i-chi-ji-ru-shi-i-ta-ma-ri-no-na-i-ko-to

and means that there is no accumulation of aggregates and is smooth.

Since, I do not know the material, the description should be modified.

Why, you didnt contact me ;) - I could have helped you :lol:
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
Jim,

Thats not Chinese but is Japanese. It is pronounced as -

著しい溜まりのない事 = i-chi-ji-ru-shi-i-ta-ma-ri-no-na-i-ko-to

and means that there is no accumulation of aggregates and is smooth.

Since, I do not know the material, the description should be modified.

Why, you didnt contact me ;) - I could have helped you :lol:
Hello Qualityalways,

You give the word "Competent" a total new meaning. :D
Thank you for the explanation.

Stijloor.
 

Doug Tropf

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
We received an audit observation last year during a customer audit for
"red-lined" updates on our plant drawings not being initialed and dated.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#10
Jim,

Thats not Chinese but is Japanese. It is pronounced as -

著しい溜まりのない事 = i-chi-ji-ru-shi-i-ta-ma-ri-no-na-i-ko-to

and means that there is no accumulation of aggregates and is smooth.

Since, I do not know the material, the description should be modified.

Why, you didnt contact me ;) - I could have helped you :lol:
Thanks! The tier one supplier was in Taiwan, as I recall.
 
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