Proactive efforts to reduce risk - PFMEA risk reduction activities

bkirch

Involved In Discussions
#1
We have a customer who requires evidence of proactive efforts to reduce risk by focusing on PFMEA's. Does anyone perform similar activities and would you be willing to share a meeting template that you follow?

Also, this customer would like for us to to focus on RPN values, but use what they call a risk limiting method. With the Risk limiting method you compare the severity vs. occurrence and severity vs. detection. Has anyone had experience using this method?
 
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yodon

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
A quick search of the posted attachments provides a plethora of pFMEA templates like this one: https://elsmar.com/Forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19061

This one, in particular, does incorporate a detection rating but I'm not sure about the risk limiting method.

By the way, it's not so much a 1-time event with meeting minutes; it should be actively reviewed and updated as new information (like escaping nonconformities) is received.
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
Also, this customer would like for us to to focus on RPN values, but use what they call a risk limiting method. With the Risk limiting method you compare the severity vs. occurrence and severity vs. detection. Has anyone had experience using this method?
This feels like a half step and a slide away from RPN values which are nearly useless except when they are dangerously misleading. The real focus here should be to think about the true risk and not rely on a number that was generated by a mathematically invalid formula (The RPN 'score')
 

brandieb1230

Involved In Discussions
#4
We hold PFMEA review meetings. These meetings are looking to make sure the severity, detection and occurrence are correct and then we discuss ways to improve areas. line for line.
 

cpearison

Starting to get Involved
#5
I have the the 4th edition sitting in front of me and I need to know if there is a scale used for the PRN? Or an industry standard? They have one for each of the Occurrence, Detection and the Severity. 1- 10 for each defining each from worst to best. What about the PRN?? For instance: if over 100 do we need to take action? I know that I have several with the severity of 10. I put detection's in place, but what about the PRN?:bonk:
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#6
I have the the 4th edition sitting in front of me and I need to know if there is a scale used for the PRN? Or an industry standard? They have one for each of the Occurrence, Detection and the Severity. 1- 10 for each defining each from worst to best. What about the PRN?? For instance: if over 100 do we need to take action? I know that I have several with the severity of 10. I put detection's in place, but what about the PRN?:bonk:
I don't have a PFMEA manual to refer to, as upon my retirement a few years ago I set fire to all of my AIAG manuals as an homage to the Gods of Common Sense. There are "guidelines" in the manual for setting the individual factors (Occurrence, Detection, Severity) and you might have mindless customers who will insist on observing them. Failing that, you should not set "trigger" RPN values because they tend to become self-fulfilling prophecies--RPN values will tend to approach but not exceed. I always favored using a scale (for Occurrence, e.g.) where 1 = no chance in hell and 10 denotes inevitability. Absent customer requirements to the contrary, do what you think makes sense.
 

cpearison

Starting to get Involved
#7
I am still sitting here snickering! lmbo!!:applause:
I am about to retire here in a few years, too! I might follow you lead and have a burn fest, too!
With all the new standards putting emphasis on Risk analysis, I can't believe that more companies aren't demanding so kind of scale on the RPN??? It becomes quite complex for a company like ours that is probably 90% or more manually driven workforce!! Very little automation. Too much room for human error all over the place!! I've even thought of taking to drinking hehe!! ;)

Thanks for taking the time to respond!
 

tongxiaozhi

Involved In Discussions
#8
Normally, only product redesign can bring about a reduction in the severity ranking and process dedesign or revision can bring about a reduction in occurence ranking.
 

tongxiaozhi

Involved In Discussions
#9
I don't have a PFMEA manual to refer to, as upon my retirement a few years ago I set fire to all of my AIAG manuals as an homage to the Gods of Common Sense. There are "guidelines" in the manual for setting the individual factors (Occurrence, Detection, Severity) and you might have mindless customers who will insist on observing them. Failing that, you should not set "trigger" RPN values because they tend to become self-fulfilling prophecies--RPN values will tend to approach but not exceed. I always favored using a scale (for Occurrence, e.g.) where 1 = no chance in hell and 10 denotes inevitability. Absent customer requirements to the contrary, do what you think makes sense.
it is clearly specified in the FMEA mannual that the use of RPN threshold to trigger actions is not recommended.
 
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