Problems with FMEA integration due to different Customer Specific Requirements

Peters

Quite Involved in Discussions
#1
During the certification audit I found interesting practical problem.
Firm X have some automotive customers: Fiat, Daimler, GM, Ford.
There is a problem with FMEA.
Fiat has own procedure 00271 for FMEA and his own form for FMEA.
Daimler prefer VDA 4 for FMEA and "german" form (from VDA 4).
GM want FMEA according to AIAG FMEA 4th edition (with new AIAG form).
Ford has his own manual "Ford FMEA Guideliness" with Ford form.
Firm doesn't wont to have different FMEA's with different forms for particular customers. They use FMEA software and they need one form.
What should they do?
 
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Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#2
The standard answer would be to request waivers from the customers but I doubt that they will get them.
If I remember correctly the VDA and AIAG do not actually mandate the form and it is only a recomendation.
The problem could be more in the definition of the rankings which are being changed all the time
This is exactly what TS was supposed to stop:nope:

sorry
 
D

David Bamford

#3
We deliver to Mercedes/AMG, Audi and Aston Martin. We use our own FMEA template which is VDA, TS complient.
As long as you fulfill these requirements and the customer accepts then there shouldn't be a problem
 

Peters

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
The standard answer would be to request waivers from the customers but I doubt that they will get them.
If I remember correctly the VDA and AIAG do not actually mandate the form and it is only a recomendation.
The problem could be more in the definition of the rankings which are being changed all the time
This is exactly what TS was supposed to stop:nope:
I think it would be difficult to obtain waivers.
The truth is - they have even more customers.
And I don't understand why customer's kind of FMEA (manual and form) is customer requirement. Is it so important for the customers?

We use our own FMEA template which is VDA, TS complient.
As long as you fulfill these requirements and the customer accepts then there shouldn't be a problem
Customer accepts? Even PPAP positive result isn't evidence that customer acccept this one FMEA form and FMEA rankings.

Thank you guys :cool:
 
E

erdemikiz

#5
Suppliers of Renault may face different problems. AMDEC is the FMEA application of Renault and seems quite different from AIAG version. Our firm supplies parts to Toyota, Daimler, Renault, Honda, GM, Ford, VW, Hyundai. We don't have problems with any of them since basic principles are correctly applied. Only Renault requires AMDEC. Others are OK for a standard form.:D
 
R

Roger Thorpe - 2008

#6
Peters

I have just joined the forum today. I have worked for the last 13 years as a Trainer and consultant to the automotive industry the majority of my time is spent assisting companies with their respective FMEAs. Most of the Customers you have mentioned are customers who my clients are engaged with. They also have encountered similar problems.
In my experience customers often overlook the fact that their prefered template isn't used if they are happy with the content. Usually when the content is called into question then their default reaction is do it our way. I am not suggesting that your content is at fault simply what I experience. Often it is simply the view point of the customer representative on the day!
The solution I have come up with to protect my business and assist my customers is over the last six years to develop our own bespoke excel based software which includes the Process Flow diagram, PFMEA and the Control Plan. With the advent of the 4th Edition what we did is created a series of 'tabs' with copy data form the primary worksheets which simply presented the data in the various forms required by the various customers. You simply print out the one required based on who's turning up today. No extra work and one FMEA!
I'll be upfront with you we do sell this software, if you are interested you can get in touch, but the purpose of this response is to recommend that you apply a similar approach as your way forward. Like it or lump it unfortunately apparently when it comes to FMEA the customer is always right!

I hope this is of some help, and acknowledge this is a tricky one.

Roger
 

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lhuaab

#7
we supply to GM, Ford, Toyota, other OEs, and Tier 1 customers, the template is not a problem at all as long as customers satisfy with the content ( what's written in FMEA). The focus of FMEA is to identify potential risks, identify critical characteristics and significant characteristics though appropriate ranking, not the format itself.
 
N

ntrprizxile

#8
We have a raging debate in my company over FMEA - guideline or requirement. Our automotive customers say (in our CSR's) they want us to use the AIAG FMEA manual and we do. But the manual clearly states (page 1) that it does not define requirements and is intended as a guideline.

BUT! Our registrar is now writing us up because we have not moved from 3rd to 4th edition quickly enough. They say since we have CSR's defining using of AIAG FMEA it is a requirement. We say we are using AIAG FMEA 3rd edition successfully per CSR and our customers are satisfied. Which revision of FMEA falls into the guideline aspect of the manual.

As a compromise we proposed changing our internal specs to require update of FMEA's based on new AIAG manual edition over a period of time, but this got shot down over the guideline vs requirement debate.

Since we have literally hunderds of FMEA's across the company, forcing a change would mean a lot of man power with very little perceived value.

Recommendations?

-Xile
 
S

sixsigmais

#9
First rules for all the manufacturing is fulfill customer requirement.
Firm X shall discuss with the customer to accept their own form, if customer do not agree, then firm X shall satisfy the customer requirement. However, Firm X can still use their internal form for themself.

This is nothing about the system requirement but communication.
 
S

Sanda

#10
The FMEA manual is a quideline, but most of OEM's want to see that the rankings and the content of the columns are followed accordingly, NOT the form itself.
Regarding the changes of FMEA (especially when you have so many) and the fact that 3rd and 4th edition forms aren't so different, you could argue to the register that you will change each FMEA when o change is needed (so you will have also the opportunity to change the form). You must ask yourself with what frequency the FMEA changes. But you must change the rankings accordingly with a new AIAG revision (because the customer's want this), so if those are annexed is much easy.
 
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