Problems with Supplier - Always with 100% Sorting - No Corrective Actions

[Reality99]

Hi,

I'm a SQE in a Tier 1 company. Good levels of quality to our customer.

I have a supplier with very low level of quality since one year ago.
Currently I have a 100% sorting in place for all their part numbers. With this, I assure the good quality in our production lines.

As you may expect, this is not the way to work.
This supplier has been visited by our corporate quality guys, they have audited them, several things have came up and a work plan has been settled since last year, but the supplier does not cooperate.
They still send poor parts, it seems they don't care to pay for sorting services.

I heard that they suffer lack and rotation of personnel, their quality team is very small and I assume they have pretty worst issues with others suppliers.
I have been talking to them and attitude and manners are good. They are aware of the costs and quality level but nothing happens. Their reaction always is like "I really sorry, you are right, my apologies in the name of..., but we are always deep neck!!"

How would you handle it in this point?
A supplier change is a very high possibility, but it will take time, maybe by mid/2013.

 

[Wes Bucey]

Re: Problems with supplier. Always with 100% sorting , no actions.

Hi,

I'm a SQE in a Tier 1 company. Good levels of quality to our customer.

I have a supplier with very low level of quality since one year ago.
Currently I have a 100% sorting in place for all their part numbers. With this, I assure the good quality in our production lines.

As you may expect, this is not the way to work.
This supplier has been visited by our corporate quality guys, they have audited them, several things have came up and a work plan has been settled since last year, but the supplier does not cooperate.
They still send poor parts, it seems they don't care to pay for sorting services.

I heard that they suffer lack and rotation of personnel, their quality team is very small and I assume they have pretty worst issues with others suppliers.
I have been talking to them and attitude and manners are good. They are aware of the costs and quality level but nothing happens. Their reaction always is like "I really sorry, you are right, my apologies in the name of..., but we are always deep neck!!"

How would you handle it in this point?
A supplier change is a very high possibility, but it will take time, maybe by mid/2013.

Much depends on the reasons it would take your organization an entire year to replace this supplier. Are the products proprietary to the supplier or custom to your organization's design?

If they are the supplier's proprietary design, it might be less expensive [than 100% sort on every shipment] in the long run to supply YOUR quality people at the supplier's site to help them perform root cause analysis and oversee corrective action.

If the products are custom made to your organization's designs, there was definitely a disconnect in the supplier approval process at your organization which needs to be addressed before seeking a new supplier, regardless of how far in the future that may be. If no change in the approval process, your organization risks a repeat of "problematic" supply.

In the short term, of course, your organization can send an on-site team to attempt rehabilitating the supplier, but it might be better to expend the resources in finding a better supplier.

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

Re: Problems with supplier. Always with 100% sorting , no actions.

How would you handle it in this point?
A supplier change is a very high possibility, but it will take time, maybe by mid/2013.

Apart from what Wes already said, you could require them to do the sorting at your premises until you find a suitable replacement. That usually rings a bell, and even if it does not, you will tie up their resources rather than your own.

/Claes

 

[Wes Bucey]

Re: Problems with supplier. Always with 100% sorting , no actions.

Apart from what Wes already said, you could require them to do the sorting at your premises until you find a suitable replacement. That usually rings a bell, and even if it does not, you will tie up their resources rather than your own.

/Claes

As a Demingite, I just can't countenance 100% sort, regardless of who has to perform or pay. Need we cite examples where 100% inspection does not guarantee 100% perfection?

I'm certainly aware of chargeback fees imposed by customers on suppliers for sorting - especially in automotive supply chains. They do not improve quality since the resources are diverted to inspection, rather than to analysis and elimination of root causes. Sometimes, those fees push potentially good suppliers into bankruptcy.

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

Re: Problems with supplier. Always with 100% sorting , no actions.

As a Demingite, I just can't countenance 100% sort, regardless of who has to perform or pay.

Nor can I, but it takes two to tango and apparently Reality99 is dancing solo at the moment, so maybe his supplier is not a Demingite.

Need we cite examples where 100% inspection does not guarantee 100% perfection?

Of course not. Nobody wants 100% inspection, but need I point out that it is already happening?

/Claes

 

[Reality99]

Re: Problems with supplier. Always with 100% sorting , no actions.

Well, the truth is that the supplier is paying for all these sortings.
It was a huge deal to obligate them to pay, until we made some kind of threats of charging back in the invoices we pay for their product all those costs. Also the threat to stop our customer line if they don't pay sorting company.

By the way, have you done that with your suppliers? I mean, not paying the full invoice for the product because sorting costs. I think is a very serious decision to make and it would involve legal implications.

The point here is, as SQE, are you satisfied with this "quality control" so far? Due the real situation of the supplier.

 

[Wes Bucey]

Re: Problems with supplier. Always with 100% sorting , no actions.

<SNIP>

Of course not. Nobody wants 100% inspection, but need I point out that it is already happening?

/Claes

Kids are starving, countries are at war. That doesn't mean it's OK. Somebody has to change status quo, else why do we bother to give advice?

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

Re: Problems with supplier. Always with 100% sorting , no actions.

Kids are starving, countries are at war. That doesn't mean it's OK. Somebody has to change status quo, else why do we bother to give advice?

More relevant examples of things that are not ok could include a supplier consistently sending you sub-standard merchandise and then refusing to cooperate, when it comes to doing something about it.

As for changing status quo, an obvious way in this scenario would be to consider an alternative supplier, but Reality99 needs to keep things moving until a switch is possible.

By the way, have you done that with your suppliers? I mean, not paying the full invoice for the product because sorting costs. I think is a very serious decision to make and it would involve legal implications.

I have not, and as you say it is a serious decision. I suppose you would do well to have the lawyers have a look at that one.

The point here is, as SQE, are you satisfied with this "quality control" so far? Due the real situation of the supplier.

Certainly not, and the question is if you can get them on track?

/Claes

 

[Reality99]

Re: Problems with supplier. Always with 100% sorting , no actions.

Well, the truth is that the supplier is paying for all these sortings.
It was a huge deal to obligate them to pay, until we made some kind of threats of charging back in the invoices we pay for their product all those costs. Also the threat to stop our customer line if they don't pay sorting company.

By the way, have you done that with your suppliers? I mean, not paying the full invoice for the product because sorting costs. I think is a very serious decision to make and it would involve legal implications.

The point here is, as SQE, are you satisfied with this "quality control" so far? Due the real situation of the supplier.

I remember that her former quality engineer told me once: "you should consider to change to our sister company (in other state), they have better quality than us". At least she was honest...

It's a very weird situation to us here, because we are used to good supplier quality and good response after issues, and this one is shaking our little world.

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

Re: Problems with supplier. Always with 100% sorting , no actions.

I remember that her former quality engineer told me once: "you should consider to change to our sister company (in other state), they have better quality than us". At least she was honest...

When people say things like that I hear "-I am frustrated" and immediately suspect leadership issues.

It's a very weird situation to us here, because we are used to good supplier quality and good response after issues, and this one is shaking our little world.

I see what you mean. Such lack of response is surprising (as it equals shooting yourself in the foot) and therefore hard to get to grips with.

/Claes