Problems with Supplier - Always with 100% Sorting - No Corrective Actions

R

Reality99

#1
Hi,

I'm a SQE in a Tier 1 company. Good levels of quality to our customer.

I have a supplier with very low level of quality since one year ago.
Currently I have a 100% sorting in place for all their part numbers. With this, I assure the good quality in our production lines.

As you may expect, this is not the way to work.
This supplier has been visited by our corporate quality guys, they have audited them, several things have came up and a work plan has been settled since last year, but the supplier does not cooperate.
They still send poor parts, it seems they don't care to pay for sorting services.

I heard that they suffer lack and rotation of personnel, their quality team is very small and I assume they have pretty worst issues with others suppliers.
I have been talking to them and attitude and manners are good. They are aware of the costs and quality level but nothing happens. Their reaction always is like "I really sorry, you are right, my apologies in the name of..., but we are always deep neck!!"

How would you handle it in this point?
A supplier change is a very high possibility, but it will take time, maybe by mid/2013.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit
#2
Re: Problems with supplier. Always with 100% sorting , no actions.

Hi,

I'm a SQE in a Tier 1 company. Good levels of quality to our customer.

I have a supplier with very low level of quality since one year ago.
Currently I have a 100% sorting in place for all their part numbers. With this, I assure the good quality in our production lines.

As you may expect, this is not the way to work.
This supplier has been visited by our corporate quality guys, they have audited them, several things have came up and a work plan has been settled since last year, but the supplier does not cooperate.
They still send poor parts, it seems they don't care to pay for sorting services.

I heard that they suffer lack and rotation of personnel, their quality team is very small and I assume they have pretty worst issues with others suppliers.
I have been talking to them and attitude and manners are good. They are aware of the costs and quality level but nothing happens. Their reaction always is like "I really sorry, you are right, my apologies in the name of..., but we are always deep neck!!"

How would you handle it in this point?
A supplier change is a very high possibility, but it will take time, maybe by mid/2013.
Much depends on the reasons it would take your organization an entire year to replace this supplier. Are the products proprietary to the supplier or custom to your organization's design?

If they are the supplier's proprietary design, it might be less expensive [than 100% sort on every shipment] in the long run to supply YOUR quality people at the supplier's site to help them perform root cause analysis and oversee corrective action.

If the products are custom made to your organization's designs, there was definitely a disconnect in the supplier approval process at your organization which needs to be addressed before seeking a new supplier, regardless of how far in the future that may be. If no change in the approval process, your organization risks a repeat of "problematic" supply.

In the short term, of course, your organization can send an on-site team to attempt rehabilitating the supplier, but it might be better to expend the resources in finding a better supplier.
 
#3
Re: Problems with supplier. Always with 100% sorting , no actions.

How would you handle it in this point?
A supplier change is a very high possibility, but it will take time, maybe by mid/2013.
Apart from what Wes already said, you could require them to do the sorting at your premises until you find a suitable replacement. That usually rings a bell, and even if it does not, you will tie up their resources rather than your own.

/Claes
 

Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit
#4
Re: Problems with supplier. Always with 100% sorting , no actions.

Apart from what Wes already said, you could require them to do the sorting at your premises until you find a suitable replacement. That usually rings a bell, and even if it does not, you will tie up their resources rather than your own.

/Claes
As a Demingite, I just can't countenance 100% sort, regardless of who has to perform or pay. Need we cite examples where 100% inspection does not guarantee 100% perfection?

I'm certainly aware of chargeback fees imposed by customers on suppliers for sorting - especially in automotive supply chains. They do not improve quality since the resources are diverted to inspection, rather than to analysis and elimination of root causes. Sometimes, those fees push potentially good suppliers into bankruptcy.
 
#5
Re: Problems with supplier. Always with 100% sorting , no actions.

As a Demingite, I just can't countenance 100% sort, regardless of who has to perform or pay.
Nor can I, but it takes two to tango and apparently Reality99 is dancing solo at the moment, so maybe his supplier is not a Demingite.

Need we cite examples where 100% inspection does not guarantee 100% perfection?
Of course not. Nobody wants 100% inspection, but need I point out that it is already happening?

/Claes
 
R

Reality99

#6
Re: Problems with supplier. Always with 100% sorting , no actions.

Well, the truth is that the supplier is paying for all these sortings.
It was a huge deal to obligate them to pay, until we made some kind of threats of charging back in the invoices we pay for their product all those costs. Also the threat to stop our customer line if they don't pay sorting company.

By the way, have you done that with your suppliers? I mean, not paying the full invoice for the product because sorting costs. I think is a very serious decision to make and it would involve legal implications.

The point here is, as SQE, are you satisfied with this "quality control" so far? Due the real situation of the supplier.
 

Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit
#7
Re: Problems with supplier. Always with 100% sorting , no actions.

<SNIP>

Of course not. Nobody wants 100% inspection, but need I point out that it is already happening?

/Claes
Kids are starving, countries are at war. That doesn't mean it's OK. Somebody has to change status quo, else why do we bother to give advice?
 
#8
Re: Problems with supplier. Always with 100% sorting , no actions.

Kids are starving, countries are at war. That doesn't mean it's OK. Somebody has to change status quo, else why do we bother to give advice?
More relevant examples of things that are not ok could include a supplier consistently sending you sub-standard merchandise and then refusing to cooperate, when it comes to doing something about it.

As for changing status quo, an obvious way in this scenario would be to consider an alternative supplier, but Reality99 needs to keep things moving until a switch is possible.

By the way, have you done that with your suppliers? I mean, not paying the full invoice for the product because sorting costs. I think is a very serious decision to make and it would involve legal implications.
I have not, and as you say it is a serious decision. I suppose you would do well to have the lawyers have a look at that one.

The point here is, as SQE, are you satisfied with this "quality control" so far? Due the real situation of the supplier.
Certainly not, and the question is if you can get them on track?

/Claes
 
Last edited:
R

Reality99

#9
Re: Problems with supplier. Always with 100% sorting , no actions.

Well, the truth is that the supplier is paying for all these sortings.
It was a huge deal to obligate them to pay, until we made some kind of threats of charging back in the invoices we pay for their product all those costs. Also the threat to stop our customer line if they don't pay sorting company.

By the way, have you done that with your suppliers? I mean, not paying the full invoice for the product because sorting costs. I think is a very serious decision to make and it would involve legal implications.

The point here is, as SQE, are you satisfied with this "quality control" so far? Due the real situation of the supplier.
I remember that her former quality engineer told me once: "you should consider to change to our sister company (in other state), they have better quality than us". At least she was honest... :(

It's a very weird situation to us here, because we are used to good supplier quality and good response after issues, and this one is shaking our little world.
 
#10
Re: Problems with supplier. Always with 100% sorting , no actions.

I remember that her former quality engineer told me once: "you should consider to change to our sister company (in other state), they have better quality than us". At least she was honest... :(
When people say things like that I hear "-I am frustrated" and immediately suspect leadership issues.

It's a very weird situation to us here, because we are used to good supplier quality and good response after issues, and this one is shaking our little world.
I see what you mean. Such lack of response is surprising (as it equals shooting yourself in the foot) and therefore hard to get to grips with.

/Claes
 
Last edited:
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
T Contacting the Supplier's CB vs a Supplier Audit - Nonconformance Problems AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
V Supplier's First Run had Plating Problems - Can they Strip, Re-Plate and PPAP them? APQP and PPAP 14
L Avoiding Recurrence of the Supplier?s Quality Problems Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 5
C Efficient Supplier Development and Problems with Buyers Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 5
D Dealing With a Chinese Supplier to follow up on quality problems Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 26
Jim Wynne Track and solve supplier quality problems - How do you address these supplier issues? Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 9
M Tritator DL-50 Mettler Toledo - Problems finding a Supplier to Calibrate the Tritator General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
K Problems with process equipment ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 4
A Feedback of typical maintenance problems with LMI digital probes Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 0
S New problems exporting to Germany - February 2019 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 7
C Resource allocation problems in Software DFMEA FMEA and Control Plans 4
R Tapping problems - 3/8" hot roll pickled & oiled steel - seeking expertise Manufacturing and Related Processes 15
Marc Problems - Contacting Us about Problems (How To - Etc.) Elsmar Xenforo Forum Software Instructions and Help 0
Marc Youtube - Viewing problems Elsmar Xenforo Forum Software Instructions and Help 4
O How do reduce the risk of suppliers having similar problems? Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 4
L Problems while documenting the SOUPs used for the software we are developing IEC 62304 - Medical Device Software Life Cycle Processes 4
W Problems with our new Auditor (a Ph.D. with four months experience) ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 25
L Relying on Suppliers - Most Quality and Warranty problems are caused by Suppliers Supply Chain Security Management Systems 5
M The biggest gaps and problems in QMS or Quality in Automotive Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 3
I Request an FDA GUDID Account - Problems Other US Medical Device Regulations 3
S Document Review Problems ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
L How to avoid Nonconformance Reoccurrence problems IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 20
C Software Process Implementation Problems ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
K Bottle Labeling Machine Problems - Non conformance in FCMG industry Nonconformance and Corrective Action 8
Peter Fraser Problems and Deficiencies with the ISO 9001:2015 Draft ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 12
B Quality problems that cost Millions of dollars (or euros, or pounds, etc.) Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 7
AnaMariaVR2 How Open Innovation is Solving Some of NASA?s Trickiest Problems World News 0
T A survey on problems during ISMS implementation - need help IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 2
S Common Electric Fan Motor Problems Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 3
M Problems with Competence/Skills Matrix (6.2 Human Resources) AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
ScottK Is anyone else having problems uploading Proprietary Names into the DRLM? 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 9
M FDA Warning Letter - Product Association with Search Engine Results - Problems Ahead? US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 10
M Problems with Unrealistic Customer Expectations Customer Complaints 12
AnaMariaVR2 Chronic Regulatory Compliance Issues Causing Drug Shortages & Safety Problems Pharmaceuticals (21 CFR Part 210, 21 CFR Part 211 and related Regulations) 1
Q Method on how to cause people to solve problems Benchmarking 5
O Aerospace Registrar Problems - Starting Over? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 13
M 8.2.4 Problems with Monitoring and Measurement of Product AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
G Product Returns are above average for Labeling Problems Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 4
1 A New Job - Replaced a QM who passed away - BIG Problems Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 25
N English as a Second Language - English problems with Legal Terms Contract Review Process 2
Uriel Alejandro Problems with the Employee Skills Matrix - Document Control System Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 8
M Problems implementing ISO 13485 for Software-Only Medical Device Manufacturers? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 4
B How can I resolve Chronic Nonconformance Problems? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
S Problems with the application of EN 62366:2008 IEC 62366 - Medical Device Usability Engineering 13
F Can you tell me if this table is correct? Gage R&R Problems Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 12
D Quality Metrics to use to solve Problems Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 5
P Self Motivation - How to keep it when overwhelmed with problems? Career and Occupation Discussions 13
S Systemic Problems Identified in Audit and How to Fix Them IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
T Lollipop Production Line Problems - Defectives and Root Cause Analysis Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 6
T Big problems with Inspection - Manual Operation - Needs experts Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 27

Similar threads

Top Bottom