Problems with the Employee Skills Matrix - Document Control System

Uriel Alejandro

Involved In Discussions
#1
Hi everyone,

Me and my team mate are having an discussion trying to set our skill matrix. So, we need to external opinions to try to solve this dilema.

He says we should put under control all the activities listed in our documents but i say It's enough just putting the main purpose for the document.

For example: Our "Control of documents procedure" it's divided in three principal activities:

1. Creation of documents
2. Revision
3. Approval

For me It´s only "Control of documents" the skill to control, but for my partner the three activities above. His point is that not everyone have the autority to approve documents, so we need to specify which activity is for each person. I think he´s right in that point but in our training session, we teach people to perform the three activities and tell who It's the responsable to perform them, so even when they are able to perform it all doesn't mean they are allowed to do it, the document provide all the responsabilities so we dont need to give all the details in the skill matrix, is implicit.

Who it´s right? I may sound like a silly discussion, and maybe it is or maybe we both are wrong. Any help is welcome

I hope I have explained my problem clearly, It´s a little bit is difficult to explain in language that is not your first languaje

Thanks in advance
 
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K

kgott

#2
He says we should put under control all the activities listed in our documents but i say It's enough just putting the main purpose for the document.
As I interpret what you have described, the thoughts that come to my mind are is that your mate is right but also wrong.

Right because the principle is correct.

Wrong because such a detailed level of competency requirements in a skill matrix is far to detailed and will be a nightmare to maintain and keep up to date.

I would suggest that a better way to deal with this is say the skill or knowledge requirement is to "know and apply document control requirements" as detailed in the document control procedure

This can then be verified by audit of the document control activities they do for compliance to the document control procedural requirements.

Another way of verifying thier knowledge or skill is by giving them an excerise, or series of excerises, to do where they are required to demonstrate their knowledge of document control requirements for their job function, using a test document where they are required to do what they have to do as part of their job.

If they do it right, they are competent, if they get it wrong and depending on how wrong they are, they have to be retrained again and then retested again.

When they get it right, the test document becomes evidence of their competency and this is kept in their personell file and they are marked as competent in the skill matrix.

hope this helps.
 
J

JaneB

#3
It comes back to:
  • what you want to achieve in your skills matrix - why have one? when will you use it, how and why?
  • the resources you hve available
  • size of your system, and
  • how your system is structured and documented.
If you've specified who's responsible for doing what in a procedure (Doc Control for example), then I'm not sure why you would want to break down that procedure into 3 separate further skills, as listed, and show each of those separately in the matrix. Why? What's the benefit?

It would make for a very large matrix, which would take some effort to maintain.
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#4
Hi everyone,

Me and my team mate are having an discussion trying to set our skill matrix. So, we need to external opinions to try to solve this dilema.

He says we should put under control all the activities listed in our documents but i say It's enough just putting the main purpose for the document.

For example: Our "Control of documents procedure" it's divided in three principal activities:

1. Creation of documents
2. Revision
3. Approval

For me It´s only "Control of documents" the skill to control, but for my partner the three activities above. His point is that not everyone have the autority to approve documents, so we need to specify which activity is for each person. I think he´s right in that point but in our training session, we teach people to perform the three activities and tell who It's the responsable to perform them, so even when they are able to perform it all doesn't mean they are allowed to do it, the document provide all the responsabilities so we dont need to give all the details in the skill matrix, is implicit.

Who it´s right? I may sound like a silly discussion, and maybe it is or maybe we both are wrong. Any help is welcome

I hope I have explained my problem clearly, It´s a little bit is difficult to explain in language that is not your first languaje

Thanks in advance
Probably I am confused, however I try to suggest to establish clear responsibility and authorities as ISO 9001 foresees.
You can use whatever method or way, I mean job description, skill matix, documentation or also verbal, I do not know but it is important that your people are aware of what they shall do .
I understand your necessity to break down but only you may decide on how to proceed. I perceive a misunderstanding in the responsibility and authority section with the skills and competences. They are different things.:bigwave:
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
Probably I am confused, however I try to suggest to establish clear responsibility and authorities as ISO 9001 foresees.
You can use whatever method or way, I mean job description, skill matix, documentation or also verbal, I do not know but it is important that your people are aware of what they shall do .
I understand your necessity to break down but only you may decide on how to proceed. I perceive a misunderstanding in the responsibility and authority section with the skills and competences. They are different things.:bigwave:
qusys,

Many people find document control difficult. This is why your management system should make it easy for them. For example:

  • Separate current documents from superseded documents
  • Make only the current document available for use
  • Clearly mark draft documents NOT FOR USE - COMMENTS REQUESTED BY <date>
Authorizing people to do things unsupervised before they are competent is unwise. Therefore your management system will focus on the assessment of competence. The results of these assessments, by competent people, will be recorded in your matrix.

Do not start with defining the competence to control documents. That I have never seen recorded.

BTW, one way people resist change is to focus on something that is insignificant but difficult.

John
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#6
qusys,

Many people find document control difficult. This is why your management system should make it easy for them. For example:

  • Separate current documents from superseded documents
  • Make only the current document available for use
  • Clearly mark draft documents NOT FOR USE - COMMENTS REQUESTED BY <date>
Authorizing people to do things unsupervised before they are competent is unwise. Therefore your management system will focus on the assessment of competence. The results of these assessments, by competent people, will be recorded in your matrix.

Do not start with defining the competence to control documents. That I have never seen recorded.

BTW, one way people resist change is to focus on something that is insignificant but difficult.

John
Agree with you.
I tried to give a suggestion to the original poster fulgore90, if I have understood well the issue he wrote.:bigwave:
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
Hi everyone,

Me and my team mate are having an discussion trying to set our skill matrix. So, we need to external opinions to try to solve this dilema.

He says we should put under control all the activities listed in our documents but i say It's enough just putting the main purpose for the document.

For example: Our "Control of documents procedure" it's divided in three principal activities:

1. Creation of documents
2. Revision
3. Approval

For me It´s only "Control of documents" the skill to control, but for my partner the three activities above. His point is that not everyone have the autority to approve documents, so we need to specify which activity is for each person. I think he´s right in that point but in our training session, we teach people to perform the three activities and tell who It's the responsable to perform them, so even when they are able to perform it all doesn't mean they are allowed to do it, the document provide all the responsabilities so we dont need to give all the details in the skill matrix, is implicit.

Who it´s right? I may sound like a silly discussion, and maybe it is or maybe we both are wrong. Any help is welcome

I hope I have explained my problem clearly, It´s a little bit is difficult to explain in language that is not your first languaje

Thanks in advance
fulgore,

Many people find document control difficult. This is why your management system should make it easy for them. For example:

  • Separate current documents from superseded documents
  • Make only the current document available for use
  • Clearly mark draft documents NOT FOR USE - COMMENTS REQUESTED BY <date>
Authorizing people to do things unsupervised before they are competent is unwise.

Therefore your management system will focus on the assessment of competence. The results of these assessments, by competent people, will be recorded in your matrix.

Do not start with defining the competence to control documents. That I have never seen recorded.

BTW, one way people resist change is to focus on something that is insignificant but difficult.

John
 

Uriel Alejandro

Involved In Discussions
#8
Thank you all for your help,

It's funny how sometimes we block us with simple things, and How we need external opinions to set us free. All your suggestions were totally hepful.:yes:

Now we're having a clearer idea of how to build our matrix: Simply to control and focusing on competences.

Again, Thank you very much!
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#9
Thank you all for your help,

It's funny how sometimes we block us with simple things, and How we need external opinions to set us free. All your suggestions were totally hepful.:yes:

Now we're having a clearer idea of how to build our matrix: Simply to control and focusing on competences.

Again, Thank you very much!
You are welcome, fulgore90.
This is a good forum to share experience, news , suugestions and help each other.
Only another suggestion: be sure that you meet in your work for what you asked for to the clauses 5.5.1, 5.5.3 , 6.2.1 and 6.2.2.
The organization can use the methods that more fit for its purpose, the important is to comply with the standard and be effective in the QMS processes.:bigwave:
 
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