Procedure Non-Conformance=Corrective Action?

R

Reg Morrison

#11
ISO 17021:2011 paragraphs 5.2.6 and 5.2.7:

5.2.6 The certification body and any part of the same legal entity shall not offer or provide internal audits to its certified clients. The certification body shall not certify a management system on which it provided internal audits within two years following the end of the internal audits. This also applies to that part of government identified as the certification body.

5.2.7 The certification body shall not certify a management system on which a client has received management system consultancy or internal audits, where the relationship between the consultancy organization and the certification body poses an unacceptable threat to the impartiality of the certification body.
Sorry for being insistent, but your certification is at risk with the arrangement you have, because it clearly violates ISO 17021.
 
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M

markro

#12
Thanks again, and I can assure you I will not take this lightly.

Now, I'm just looking for an answer as I work through all these "non-conformances"
 
#13
It's actually not unusual for a 3-rd party auditors to do Internal Audits.
Most small companies don't have enough employees or independent groups/departments to be able to perform an internal audit by just using internal associates and must hire a consultant or some other external party to do it.
I believe it is highly unusual - perhaps you mean that it's not unusual for people who sometimes do audits for CBs, to also do internal audits, but not for the clients their CB certifies...
 
M

markro

#14
Figured it out. Just dug a little deeper.

This thread could be deleted or renamed if you would like, mods.
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#15
Our third party (registrar) auditor wanted someone certified in doing TS 16949 internal audits, and we do not currently have such a person. We questioned the necessary certification and he relented, but I still wanted someone here that had more experience in doing TS 16949 internal auditing than I have, so we hired an outside auditor. He actually works for our registrar, and had audited us is in the past, and has a very good grasp on TS 16949, so he was able to go line by line through our procedures and make sure they complied with what TS is asking. Where we are not complying, I can understand changing the procedure and doing a corrective action. On others, where it appears a much smaller change needs to be done, I would just like to make the necessary change and document what we did.
markro,

Never ask your auditor for advice. After a desktop audit of the documented parts of your management system you and your colleagues should correct any of the nonconformities reported.

You need not remove the root causes of these nonconformities to stop their recurrence. In other words you need not take corrective action on them.

Save your corrective action resources for removing the root causes of costly problems. Do this without asking your auditor what to do.

John
 
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