Definition Procedure vs. Guidelines (Like local work instructions) - Definition of

D

dbzman

#1
Hello everyone!

I work for a Heat Treating facility and we are working on ISO 9001-2000.

I'm trying to weed out some of our old procedures and need some help.
We have some operator intructions that we use for training. They desciebe the general way that we perfrom start-up and shut-down of our furnaces. We can deviate from them at times and this is allowed depending on the situation.

My question is: Are these considered procedures or are they more like guidelines. If they are guidelines, then how do we control them?

Thanks!

Mike W:bonk:
 
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B

Bob_M

#2
I'm not sure how to answer the first part in your situation, but

You control them just you like control any other process/document that you do want the operator/employee follow/perform.

What you call it does not change the need for control.
-----
Although I'm far from an expert, I would not change what you call the setup procedure just for ISO (unless you are changing the name of similar processes).

Also even though you are describing the "guidelines" for the setup, you are still providing the procedure or setup instructions. Deviation from a "base-line" is acceptable as long as you state it within the document.

Does that make sense?

(I've been working to hard on updating procedures today. Ouch my brain hurts).
 
A

Al Dyer

#3
Procedures describe:

"What" the activity is-
"Who" performs the activity-
"When" the activity is takes place-

Work instructions describe:

"How" the activity is performed.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds to me like you are talking instructions, and they need to be controlled through your current document control system.

Do you have a D/C system?

Al...:bigwave:
 
N

noboxwine

#4
Re: Definition of a Procedure

Originally posted by dbzman
Hello everyone!

My question is: Are these considered procedures or are they more like guidelines. ............
Thanks!

Mike W:bonk:
Doesn't matter, Mike ! Call 'em whatever you want, (Work Instructions, Process Instructions, Procedures, yadda, yadda). Focus your energy on making a usable document. Please don't get caught up in the semantics game!!!

If you using any document thats describes how you meet an objective, it needs to be controlled, period. How much flexibilty you give yourself within the realm of that document is completely up to you. It is required that documents are controlled (4.2.3) but most importantly, it is easy to do & makes a lot of sense. You'll see the value in it. Hope this helps & have a day---
 
A

Al Dyer

#5
noboxwine,

I don't consider specific definitions for documents as semantics. the definitions come from ISO-8402. We all need to know the differences between the levels of documentation, it gives us a type of roadmap as to the structure of the written word as it applies to the standard.

That aside, I whole heartedly agree that if a document defines an aspect of the system it needs to be controlled in some manner. That is defined, with help from ISO, by the company, in a manner that is effective and useful.

Al...:bigwave:
 
N

noboxwine

#6
Semantics

Al: We must have hit the submit button at the same time as my remarks were in general, not a response to your post. I agree with you that the moral of the story is control it and make it useful. ISO-8402, now ISO 9000, it's a little confusing, but does give the newcomers a decent roadmap.
:eek:
 
I

Isolytica

#7
Mike

if i read between the lines correctly, you want to keep the idea and flexability of a guideline, rather than the 'stiffness' of a procedure.

certainly allowed. perhaps define up front that certain parts of the guideline are meant to be interpreted depending on the actual situation the employee faces at the time of use. state that the employee is allowed to use his/her experience and judgement to execute particular steps.

a nice to have: some kind of feedback to others, to get info on what to do and what not to do in a given situation.
 

Marc

Fully vaccinated are you?
Leader
#9
Unless your standard requires a documented procedure, even a local custom will do as long as everyone can recite the sequence and specifics.

When you hit the 'documented' requirement, anything, just about, will do. Flow chart. Text document. Pictures. Combination of one or more. A procedure is just a way of doing something. How you 'describe' it (format, media, etc.) is not defined anywhere I am aware of.

Ask one thing: Does this achieve the results I seek? Does this give adequate information to someone who has to perform the job?
 
D

dbulak

#10
procedure

Marc, could you then give us what you consider as a process and what is a procedure. From what is posted in this thread the two almost seem to be one in the same. Comments please.
 
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