Definition Procedure vs. Guidelines (Like local work instructions) - Definition of

#41
Mike S. said:
I must have missed your "local control" explanation. Please explain.
First of all, I don't know about anyone else, but I took your xxx.com along the same line as the way "x" is used in mathmatical equations.

As far as my "local control". I ask the question, where does it say we cannot exercise local control of documents? The notes on my monitor, or your notes on xxx.com are good examples. Why can't we, as individuals, have control over making sure the information is correct? Local document control may be at the individual, or possibly department level. In too many cases, we seem to think that we need one "Document Controller" who has sole control over documents.
 
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howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#42
I've seen several companies that have a company-wide document control system, then allow departments the flexibility to control other documents in the way they would like (but still must meet certain criteria). One example is a person who maintains a schedule in an Excel spreadsheet on their PC. When they print it out for distribution, there is a date/time for revision control. BTW, I don't think that username and password for the Cove falls under the 4.2.3/4.2.1d definition of what needs to be controlled. :vfunny:

I noticed the "funny" website when my adult content filter started sending Cove update notices to the "deleted items" folder... :rolleyes:
 
I

Isolytica

#43
Mike S. don't get into over-controlling documents. the main doc control SOP should let you do a signature and date on some items that need to be kept like your original example stated. i have seen others use a 'for reference only' stamp, or a 'desk reference' stamp. what ever works and is easy. just define the usage in a SOP. your original example was a good one, don't let the replies off topic get ya.
 
R

Raptorwild

#44
M Greenaway said:
Well if we wanted to argue the toss with an auditor we could say that the document is controlled.

It is unique, you know who wrote/authorised it, and there are no other copies.

Now if the employee had copied his notes to everyone else you might have a problem.

Lets look again at what 'controlled' means.

Reviewed and approved by appropriate authority - who is to say the employee is not appropriate authority, they are the user after all.

System to ensure the latest copy is available - well there is only one copy, the master.
I agree with M Greenaway, but it is not so much an arguement with the auditor as long as you believe what you are saying and convince them you are right!:vfunny:


"Sounds like to be safe some type of control needs to be exercised, and the safest bet is to follow the same doc control procedures as all other docs -- i.e. make it "formal".

Mike S. Dont even think about it!:frust: I dont think that creating more work for yourself is productive. Do what is best for the company and then perform Internal Audits to verify effectivity. If you find any nonconformances then follow your corrective action system. If it is such a concern, stick the notes in your desk before your next assessment.:) It doesn't sound like Paranoia, just like someone who wants to get it right...

Paula
 
M

M Greenaway

#45
I personally dont think you can ever 'control', i.e. formally publish every note that every employee creates to help them in their jobs.

In addition the proliferation of PC's on everyones desk means we now also have numerous spreadsheets and databases, and forms created by everyone that they also personally use to help them in their jobs. Should these also be formally controlled ? If a written document must be, then these also must be as the only difference is the media itself.

Imagine that nightmare scenario.

I think a sensible approach is are people publishing things that look as if they are formally approved/issued - if so clamp down on them. But if there is clearly no confusion between a document seen in use and an official document in the QMS then there is no real problem is there - so long as they are still compliant to the main QMS document ??
 
R

Randy Stewart

#46
But if there is clearly no confusion between a document seen in use and an official document in the QMS then there is no real problem is there - so long as they are still compliant to the main QMS document ??
How simplistic, but how true! Great Point.
Mike,
Our department managers & supervisors are allowed to develop, publish and maintain their WI's. Since operations change on the fly in prototype we have to have this level of control. Our procedure just requires their signature and date. If the operator needs additional notes, we view this as a line up sheet. Similar to the Day Shift - Night Shift turnover. It's not controlled, not distributed except to the immediate audience.
Never had a problem.
 
V

vanillaiz

#47
Hi everyone,

I think I have a similar question in mind. What is the difference between a User Guide and a Work Procedure?

My supervisor named our documents categories as:
  • Manual
  • Guide
  • Procedure

I have always been in discussion with my supervisor whether a document should be called a procedure or a guide.

I hope you guys can enlighten me. Thank you.
 
J

JaneB

#48
You can call your documents anything you like. Use whatever works for you, in your company and in your situation.

If you do use the kinds of categories you've listed, it's probably useful to have some idea of what the category covers, or some examples.

For my part, I think of a 'User Guide' as telling someone how to use a particular thing (most commonly a software program). A 'work procedure' is something that sets out the steps of how the company wants a particular task or activity done.

If you have User Guides with the details (eg, how to raise an invoice in XYZ, or 'how to run a report') then procedures can just assume that people have those skills, and can include a step like:

'Raise the invoice, check it, and send to the customer'.

If they need to know exactly what menu or what keys to press, they'd consult the User Guide. (Or even better, be trained!)
 

harry

Super Moderator
#49
Hi everyone,

I think I have a similar question in mind. What is the difference between a User Guide and a Work Procedure?

My supervisor named our documents categories as:
  • Manual
  • Guide
  • Procedure

I have always been in discussion with my supervisor whether a document should be called a procedure or a guide.

I hope you guys can enlighten me. Thank you.
I assume you are asking in the context of an ISO 9001 based quality management system.

If so, you should have a clue about it by reading through your QMS documents and see how the term is being used, with reference to meeting the requirements of the standard.
 
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