Procedures Manual - Procedure Titles

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#11
I confess that upon reading the issue my first thought was "How does such a finding add any value to the organization???"

If this was the only finding or the other findings were of similar 'depth' (in other words, lacking in substance), your organization's paperwork must be amazing or I'd be questioning the competency of the person reviewing the documentation.
 
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jm1231

#13
Luv-d-4um, I think we had same experience regarding debating on CB auditor! Dont you think replacing CB auditors for our stage 2 will be an advantage on us? Or it will just cause agitation or retaliation that they will give us hardest time ever.
 

LUV-d-4UM

Quite Involved in Discussions
#15
I retained my CB auditor because over the years the auditor has recognized the improvement of our QMS. Documentation heirarchy is no longer an issue unless there ia a violation of document control.
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#17
Thanks. We call them ISO procedures because they are the 6 documented procedures required by ISO.
LUV-d-4um:

I think what many of us have been trying to express is that the management sytsem should be one that works for your organization and provides a solid foundation for business improvement. One of the issues frequently seen with ISO 9001, ISO 14001 or any other "standard" is that companies develop their systems for those requirements instead of incorporating them into an existing system and/or culture.

Having an ISO Procedures Manual is all well and good. It meets the requirements and that is an excellent start. But what about broader-based concepts such as Strategic Planning (which goes above and beyond ISO 9001's Management Review) or Communications (going above and beyond the requirements of ISO 14001)? These concepts would probably include documentation at the Procedure level and the Work Instruction level (possibly even at a Policy level). How does your organization handle this kind of situation? Is there a separate manual? Does the existing document procedure protocol apply to them?

Essentially, what I believe we were trying to say is that your organization should look beyond the black-and-white of the ISO 9001 requirements and apply to the WHOLE management system, not just the QMS.
 

LUV-d-4UM

Quite Involved in Discussions
#18
Absolutely, there are Visions and Planning, Sales and Marketing, CP on the Executive level that are documented in our intranet. They are defined and referred to in our Quality Policy Manual- reference sections and are autable when the CB walks the end-to-end process. The ISO Procedures are are just to clarify to everyone that the ISO/TS requires documents- 6 or 7 and the rest are referenced in the WI, SOP, etc... and they are also in the Masterlist of Documents. Thank you.
 
#19
Luv-d-4um, I think we had same experience regarding debating on CB auditor! Dont you think replacing CB auditors for our stage 2 will be an advantage on us? Or it will just cause agitation or retaliation that they will give us hardest time ever.
Why not tell your CB to start over, this time with someone who knows what they're doing - at no additional expense to you!
 

LUV-d-4UM

Quite Involved in Discussions
#20
We will be having new auditors for recertification. Debates with CB auditor can be intense sometimes but I find more lessons learned if I do so. I am sure there will be less debate with the new CB auditor. Thank you Andy.
 
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