Procedures Only Grow; They Never Shrink.

normhowe

Involved In Discussions
#1
Have your procedures grown like cancer? Are they filled with double checks and verifications because of previous errors. Worst of all, are those errors still happening? Here's good video from Scientific American that explains why and what you can do about it. I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#2
This is a good reminder for us all.

In one of his books, Tom Peters calls this common growth of procedures, requirements, rules, etc. "grunge" and IIRC suggested having someone in the org responsible for grunge removal/reduction because typically it only grows and never shrinks.

I think it is not always possible to to reduce, remove, simplify, but it should always be considered.
 

mattador78

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
This is a good reminder for us all.

In one of his books, Tom Peters calls this common growth of procedures, requirements, rules, etc. "grunge" and IIRC suggested having someone in the org responsible for grunge removal/reduction because typically it only grows and never shrinks.

I think it is not always possible to to reduce, remove, simplify, but it should always be considered.
Im dealing with a customer at the moment whos end user is part of the Nuclear industry and he is ripping apart my procedures and datacards demanding more from us. His end user is also one of our customers direct and has no such requirements from me when providing work directly, I'm standing fast and telling him to go back to his end user and say that my initial and current procedures for work is all i will offer, still waiting to hear back from him.
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
#4
This is an interesting subject, and the tendency to add rather than subtract is a real thing, except not so much in the area of QMS documentation. In my experience it's not common for documents to be added unless there's a new need for them. The big problem in this area is not too many documents, but too many words in the existing documents. Too many people who write QMS documentation seem to believe that it's necessary, in order to sound serious and official, to use turgid, legalistic prose and the passive voice rather than the active. This inevitably results in wordiness and lack of clarity. Here is a passage from the George Orwell essay Politics and the English Language, and the essay should be required reading for all quality managers:
I am going to translate a passage of good English into modern English of the worst sort. Here is a well-known verse from Ecclesiastes:

I returned and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.​

Here it is in modern English:

Objective considerations of contemporary phenomena compels the conclusion that success or failure in competitive activities exhibits no tendency to be commensurate with innate capacity, but that a considerable element of the unpredictable must invariably be taken into account.​
The latter example is what we often see in QMS documentation, and there's nothing to be done about it short of burning it down and starting over.

I've made it a habit, when writing almost anything, to go over the first draft with the goal of removing unnecessary words (and there are always unnecessary words) and trying to follow Orwell's further advice from the same essay:
i. Never use a metaphor, simile or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.

ii. Never use a long word where a short one will do.

iii. If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.

iv. Never use the passive where you can use the active.

v. Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.

vi. Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.

We should remember as well that the map is not the territory. A written procedure isn't the process that it represents. Sometimes when processes change it becomes necessary to change the documentation, or even write new documentation when the process itself is new. What we normally think of as a "procedure" should be a simple explication of the design of the process, and processes shouldn't be allowed to design themselves.
 
Last edited:

Tagin

Trusted Information Resource
#7
I've been pondering how to rewrite our documentation. It's not overly verbose, but its sometimes difficult to get people to read pages of text, even if its just one or two pages. We came from a system of just Visio flowcharts with textboxes added on over time to add needed detail. It required a good deal of handwaving to get through audits due to its sparseness. Auditors like our current documentation, but I'm toying with the idea of something in the middle that is more likable to the actual audience - our employees.

I've found PowerPoint very useful for telling a story - even to myself - with it's slide structure, and SmartArt and graphics support. So I wonder if I can use it for our QMS docs to strike a balance between verbosity and inadequacy. I suppose I could rewrite the existing Word docs to somewhat emulate that PowerPoint style, but I'm not sure it will be the same.
 

John Broomfield

Leader
Super Moderator
#8
Our organizations as systems are evolving from work by humans assisted by machines to add value to work by machines adding most of the value. This explains why workers now share less of the added value (unless they own the machines).

A.I. will eventually replace the documented parts of our systems.

Our flowcharted procedures may act as blueprints to help accelerate this change.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
#9
Our organizations as systems are evolving from work by humans assisted by machines to add value to work by machines adding most of the value.
That's exactly right. In the developed world, more and more processes are being automated, what tends to improve performance and consistency, while minimizing mistakes. But I find hugely disheartening that people still review and analyze documentation as a self-standing matter. Documentation is a component of business processes definition. Many times, the PROCESS gets more complex due to internal and/or external reasons. Documentation does nothing but define how processes should be run and when new risks are introduced, the process needs to be re-defined.

Documents don't exist in a vacuum. Failure to understand that is a clear symptom of a failure to understand the "process approach".
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
T Errors & Omissions in Creating QMS Procedures AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 10
H Can Non-conforming outputs & Non-conformity & Corrective Action procedures be merged Nonconformance and Corrective Action 8
M AS9100 examples of procedures, quality manual, etc. AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 7
R ISO 27001 Mandatory Policies , Procedures and Records IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 0
S ISO 13485 signing of Procedures etc. ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 10
T NDT Procedures Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 3
D ISO 9001:2015 Calibration Procedures Manufacturing and Related Processes 16
T MDR PMS System Vs. Plan Vs. Procedures EU Medical Device Regulations 3
B For professionals from an amateur: What are the differences between some plans and procedures? EU Medical Device Regulations 5
S Procedures and BPF about management of psychotropic pharmaceutical waste Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
T Help with updating procedures ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 18
H R&D and Design procedures - can one procedure cover both activities Design and Development of Products and Processes 6
C Calibration Procedures and ASTM CALIBRATION standard General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 7
L PFMEA for test procedures (ISO 14971) ISO 14971 - Medical Device Risk Management 5
Watchcat REGULATORY WATCHCAT - De Novo Proposed Rule - Alternative Practices and Procedures Other US Medical Device Regulations 0
B Operational Procedures for ISO 13485:2016 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 7
Y Procedures on Contract Review Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 3
L Separate Corrective Action and Preventive Action Procedures ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 13
L Where to place the what/when/how/who/where procedures in a multi-regulation AS9110C organisation AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
F Standard Calibration Procedures: Recommended Practice ISO 17025 related Discussions 0
DuncanGibbons Model-Based procedures and Architecting the QMS as a System Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 2
R Scientific Operating Procedures For Sterilization Practices in India PSA/2012/1 Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 0
T Design Control Procedures later in the Development Process ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
DuncanGibbons Are the IQ OQ & PQ procedures applicable to the aerospace industry? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
B Procedures for Complaint Handling and Post Market Surveillance EU Medical Device Regulations 10
A Recall/Adverse event report procedures in Kuwait/Qatar/Kenya Other Medical Device and Orthopedic Related Topics 3
S Use of "Shall" versus "Should" in Procedures ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 26
F Recommended practice for furnishing Technical Procedures ISO 17025 related Discussions 1
B Measuring and monitoring equipment - Understanding which procedures to be compliant with ISO 13485 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
F ISO 17025:2017 Clause 7.4.1 - Requirements for Procedures ISO 17025 related Discussions 4
M MDR Annex IX Chapter I, 2.2 (c) - Device identification procedures during manufacture. EU Medical Device Regulations 1
R How to improve a Validation program and procedures to FDA (21 CFR part 820) & ISO13485 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 3
N ISO 9001: 2015 - Example standards policies, procedures, acknowledgements and checklists ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
M Quality System Processes without Documented Procedures Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 39
L IATF 16949 requirements for Product Safety Procedures IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 14
M FDA News USFDA Final Rule – Medical Device Classification Procedures: Incorporating Food and Drug Administration Safety and Innovation Act Procedures Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
M FDA News The FDA Issues Final Rule on Medical Device Classification Procedures Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
K Assigning the Correct Procedures Applicable to Job Titles General Auditing Discussions 15
M Medical Device News FDA's Policies and Procedures Should Better Address Postmarket Cybersecurity Risk to Medical Devices Other US Medical Device Regulations 0
Q MDSAP Regions and how to include in procedures Other Medical Device Related Standards 2
M Translate Procedures into Spanish Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 5
J Nonconforming product procedures SOP help :) Nonconformance and Corrective Action 2
P How to have employees buy-in of quality procedures. Best practices? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
M IATF Clause 8.4.2.2 - What procedures does this apply to? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
S Which ISO 9001 Clause applies to "Procedures are outdated"? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 31
K Proto 6106 and 6106A Adjustment procedures General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 0
M ISO13485 Documentation packs (manual, procedures, forms etc) ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
S How many QMS processes and procedures? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 2
D Job Titles referenced in Procedures IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 18
Q Management control Procedures & Operational Control Procedures ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1

Similar threads

Top Bottom