Process Approach beef - Registrar says that we 'should' use the process approach

Crusader

Trusted Information Resource
#1
I have a beef. My registrar says that we should use the process approach. But, the registrar schedules audits by clause. When they audit, they audit closer to the clause than the process approach. I don't get it! :confused:

So, I am curious if anyone else has noticed this happening in their audits.
Do we need a poll?
 
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Q

qualitygoddess - 2010

#2
The last 2 audits firms I worked with used the process approach throughout the audit.

--QG
 
J
#3
should ain't shall

Lee said:
I have a beef. My registrar says that we should use the process approach. But, the registrar schedules audits by clause. When they audit, they audit closer to the clause than the process approach. I don't get it! :confused:

So, I am curious if anyone else has noticed this happening in their audits.
Do we need a poll?

Should ain't shall so use what works for you.
Have they tried to write anything against your system of audits?

James
 

Crusader

Trusted Information Resource
#4
No, they have not written anything negative in the report. They see that we have attempted to switch-over to the process approach. Not very well but we're trying. It just seems that they ought to be doing the process approach to set an example. Right?
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#5
Part of the reason it may look like the audit is being done by clause is that the accreditation bodies must be provided evidence that everything (within the standard) is being covered. At least that's my guess.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#6
Lee's expectation is correct, but if his organization is still QS-9000 and ISO 9001:2000 certified, the combination of standards make it a little more complicated to plan an audit based on processes only. It should improve when you drop QS-9000. It should.

Not that you can not use a process based approach auditing to QS-9000, but it simply does not flow that smoothly.
 

Crusader

Trusted Information Resource
#7
Sidney Vianna said:
Lee's expectation is correct, but if his organization is still QS-9000 and ISO 9001:2000 certified, the combination of standards make it a little more complicated to plan an audit based on processes only. It should improve when you drop QS-9000. It should.

Not that you can not use a process based approach auditing to QS-9000, but it simply does not flow that smoothly.
No more QS....We're ISO 9001:2000. Just achieved it last November. Don't be fooled the my name - I need to change my User name! (I'm female.);)
 

Caster

An Early Cover
Trusted Information Resource
#8
The matrix

Randy said:
Part of the reason it may look like the audit is being done by clause is that the accreditation bodies must be provided evidence that everything (within the standard) is being covered. At least that's my guess.
Randy

Our registrar has a matrix of our processes against TS clauses as one part of their audit report.

We had to fill it out initally, but now they audit by our processes and can easily demostrate complete clause coverage from the matrix.

A nice simple approach.
 
#10
Lee said:
I have a beef. My registrar says that we should use the process approach. But, the registrar schedules audits by clause. When they audit, they audit closer to the clause than the process approach. I don't get it! :confused:

So, I am curious if anyone else has noticed this happening in their audits.
Do we need a poll?
Lee:
Choose whatever approach works for the 'scope' and 'criteria' of your audits. Registrars have come under major criticism for doing element audits to show they covered the requirements and that's where the 'rot set in'. Since the accreditation bodies have responded, as Randy points out, the registrars now have to audit by the process approach. Some of it may also be carry over if your auditor does TS 16949 audits.

He's off base, IMHO, stating that you 'should' do anything. Is he saying your audits are ineffective the way they're done? Is it a 'personal' thing? One more point is that you ca become fully 'armed' by having a rationale for a specific approach used to address the scope etc. Without that, you may hear that 'process' mantra again and again........

Andy
 
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