Process Approach beef - Registrar says that we 'should' use the process approach

Crusader

Crusader

Trusted Information Resource
#1
#1
I have a beef. My registrar says that we should use the process approach. But, the registrar schedules audits by clause. When they audit, they audit closer to the clause than the process approach. I don't get it! :confused:

So, I am curious if anyone else has noticed this happening in their audits.
Do we need a poll?
 
GAGEpack - Gage & Calibration Management
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
Q

qualitygoddess - 2010

#2
#2
The last 2 audits firms I worked with used the process approach throughout the audit.

--QG
 
J

JRKH

#3
#3
should ain't shall

Lee said:
I have a beef. My registrar says that we should use the process approach. But, the registrar schedules audits by clause. When they audit, they audit closer to the clause than the process approach. I don't get it! :confused:

So, I am curious if anyone else has noticed this happening in their audits.
Do we need a poll?
Click to expand...

Should ain't shall so use what works for you.
Have they tried to write anything against your system of audits?

James
 
Crusader

Crusader

Trusted Information Resource
#4
#4
No, they have not written anything negative in the report. They see that we have attempted to switch-over to the process approach. Not very well but we're trying. It just seems that they ought to be doing the process approach to set an example. Right?
 
Randy

Randy

Super Moderator
#5
#5
Part of the reason it may look like the audit is being done by clause is that the accreditation bodies must be provided evidence that everything (within the standard) is being covered. At least that's my guess.
 
Sidney Vianna

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
#6
#6
Lee's expectation is correct, but if his organization is still QS-9000 and ISO 9001:2000 certified, the combination of standards make it a little more complicated to plan an audit based on processes only. It should improve when you drop QS-9000. It should.

Not that you can not use a process based approach auditing to QS-9000, but it simply does not flow that smoothly.
 
Crusader

Crusader

Trusted Information Resource
#7
#7
Sidney Vianna said:
Lee's expectation is correct, but if his organization is still QS-9000 and ISO 9001:2000 certified, the combination of standards make it a little more complicated to plan an audit based on processes only. It should improve when you drop QS-9000. It should.

Not that you can not use a process based approach auditing to QS-9000, but it simply does not flow that smoothly.
Click to expand...
No more QS....We're ISO 9001:2000. Just achieved it last November. Don't be fooled the my name - I need to change my User name! (I'm female.);)
 
C

Caster

An Early Cover
Trusted Information Resource
#8
#8
The matrix

Randy said:
Part of the reason it may look like the audit is being done by clause is that the accreditation bodies must be provided evidence that everything (within the standard) is being covered. At least that's my guess.
Click to expand...
Randy

Our registrar has a matrix of our processes against TS clauses as one part of their audit report.

We had to fill it out initally, but now they audit by our processes and can easily demostrate complete clause coverage from the matrix.

A nice simple approach.
 
A

AndyN

Moved On
#10
#10
Lee said:
I have a beef. My registrar says that we should use the process approach. But, the registrar schedules audits by clause. When they audit, they audit closer to the clause than the process approach. I don't get it! :confused:

So, I am curious if anyone else has noticed this happening in their audits.
Do we need a poll?
Click to expand...
Lee:
Choose whatever approach works for the 'scope' and 'criteria' of your audits. Registrars have come under major criticism for doing element audits to show they covered the requirements and that's where the 'rot set in'. Since the accreditation bodies have responded, as Randy points out, the registrars now have to audit by the process approach. Some of it may also be carry over if your auditor does TS 16949 audits.

He's off base, IMHO, stating that you 'should' do anything. Is he saying your audits are ineffective the way they're done? Is it a 'personal' thing? One more point is that you ca become fully 'armed' by having a rationale for a specific approach used to address the scope etc. Without that, you may hear that 'process' mantra again and again........

Andy
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
A Question regarding new VDA_AIAG fmea approach for process FMEA FMEA and Control Plans 0
I PFD (Process Flow Diagram) approach. Setup details as part of PFD? APQP and PPAP 5
qualprod Shortening processes complying with process approach ISO 9001 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
tony s What is the automotive process approach for auditing? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
M APQC PCF (Process Classification Framework) and ISO 9001 - Processes Based Approach ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
C Does Japan accept the Bracketing Approach for Process Validation Japan Medical Device Regulations 1
A How do we implement a Process Approach ISO 13485:2016 - Existing GMP QMS Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 2
P System Audit Approach - Application of VDA 6.3 - Process Auditing VDA Standards - Germany's Automotive Standards 2
B How do you approach the "Safe Launch" Process APQP and PPAP 17
M Process Approach: Types & number of processes required? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 19
WCHorn Quality Digest article on the Process Approach to ISO 9001 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
W Help explaining the need for the Process Approach AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
Q Introducing Process based approach on Production Floor Manufacturing and Related Processes 6
K How Can I Implement the Process Approach in AS9100C AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 9
Y What is a Process Approach Audit? Process Audits and Layered Process Audits 8
G The future of the Process Approach to Auditing General Auditing Discussions 10
Q Process Approach & Continual Improvement Clauses and Evidence of its Effective Use ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
M PFMEA (Process FMEA) - What is the best approach? FMEA and Control Plans 14
Q Process or Departments - Document Content and Managing the Process Approach ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
I Process Approach Litmus Test - Procedure Titles ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 33
B Process Approach - Convert System of Documentation into System of Managed Processes Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 2
L Consultant not following Process Approach ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 34
J Why Process Approach? Why not Process Method? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
B Process Approach to Auditing Quality Management System Internal Auditing 12
Q ISO 13485, ISO 9001 QMS and FDA Requirements - Process vs. Compliance Approach? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 4
Q Process Approach - Special Focus? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
Marc Process Approach Challenge - Please Define what the 'Process Approach' is Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 48
I Poll: Should auditors promote the process approach? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 331
Howard Atkins Process Approach Requirement for Internal Audits in TS 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 46
A Process approach to auditing ISO 9001:1994 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
A A macro-process structure approach to auditing for ISO 9001:2000(8) General Auditing Discussions 19
K FMEA is the Best C.I approach for process improvement? Preventive Action and Continuous Improvement 3
A Can the Process Approach be used to audit Management Commitment and how? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 31
A Systematic history of process approach Philosophy, Gurus, Innovation and Evolution 5
P Process Approach - Implementing ISO 13485 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 11
apestate Is the Process Approach optional? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 13
D Calculating Cpk for Tubing Wall Thickness - Extrusion Process - How to approach? Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 16
A Process Approach to Auditing Undocumented Processes at the System Level Internal Auditing 7
W What is meant by Process Approach Auditing and What questions should be asked? Process Audits and Layered Process Audits 11
U Process based Audit Approach vs. Clause based Audit Approach Process Audits and Layered Process Audits 49
Anerol C Process Approach Training Material ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
W Process approach - Auditor issued OFI (opportunity for improvement) on clause 8.2.2 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
O Training on ISO9001 Process Approach Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 13
P What is the Process Approach in Payroll? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
T Implementing the Process Based Approach - Reality check needed ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 15
B Process Approach Audit Plan - What a Process Approach Audit Plan Looks Like Internal Auditing 19
H Process Approach - Apply it into the system procedure Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 0
M Supply and Delivery - How should I approach the work for a specific process ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
T QSE basics and QMS process audit approach - What are the QSE basics? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
V Process approach based internal auditing Internal Auditing 1

Similar threads

Top Bottom