Process Audit Checklist - Generic vs. Process Specific

Colin

Quite Involved in Discussions
#11
Please give us an example of what you are calling a 'framework'.

And how does an auditor 'put a slant on things'? Again, an example would be nice.
Well, I would expect most audits to cover items such as:

Have they got access to the procedure?
Is it at the correct version?
Have there been any significant changes since the last audit?
Are there any outstanding issues from the last audit?
Are there any new staff in the area being audited?
Is there any applicable legislation in the area - has it changed?
What are the objectives for the area?
Are there any significant N/C's or complaints related to the area?

As for the 'slant', I think internal auditors in particular, will have different perspectives on an area depending on where they sit in the organisation. If the auditor works in an area which is 'upstream' of the area being audited, they will probably have a different view than if they are 'downstream', or not directly involved at all. I believe this shapes the way an auditor acts.

If purchasing was being audited and I work for the raw materials stores, I suspect I would have different questions than if I worked for sales or design.
 
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Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#12
Essentially you're calling what are, for all intents and purposes, check list items a 'framework'. Other than the first 2 items, most of what you cite would, to me, be audit prep work which I would use to determine if and where I wanted a focus (such as prior audit results and NC and complaints).

As to the 'slant', I may be missing something, but no matter where the auditor's main 'work' is (purchasing, maintenance, sales, design, etc.), the auditor is auditing a process outside their main 'work' area. While they will each 'see' the function/process they are auditing differently, that to me is a 'granted'. If I work in shipping and I'm auditing an assembly process, I'm definitely going to see things a bit differently than someone who is from sales. While that will tend to bias an auditor to look at some aspects of the process differently (such as looking closer at one aspect over another, especially aspects which directly affect them), it shouldn't affect the audit. An auditor is not supposed to go in and only audit what is appropriate to them. I will grant you that, as far as 'observations' go, each discipline will typically have different views as to what could be improved upon. An engineer will see some things a receiving clerk may not.
 

Colin

Quite Involved in Discussions
#13
I regard the items I listed as probably appropriate to any internal audit. What I would also expect to see are the specifics related to that particular process/procedure.

These are the aspects I would see each auditor preparing for in more detail. So if the procedure calls up the use of a specific form, I would expect the auditor to see that this form is being used for the purpose for which it is intended and to check that it is effective in achieving its purpose e.g. communicating accurately which items need to be picked for an outgoing order.

No, I don't think you are missing anything regarding the perspective from one auditor to another - you explain it very well. My initial point was that I don't think it is helpful to the audit process to 'automate' it by exclusively using pre-prepared questions for each auditor to ask - you may as well do it by telephone :)
 
A

alspread

#14
I am a proponent of the pre-defined checklist approach. Of course one has to weigh the advantages and disadvantages to each and make it work for the specific environement.

I like the ability to pre-code the questions as Obstacle3 has done in groups. This permits me the ability to analyze findings by these codes and determine where improvement activities need to be focused as well seeing audit effectiveness over time.

In order to eliminate some of the staleness, I have formed some of my questions to require the auditor to collect a minimum number of samples and use them throughout the audit to evaluate complince.

For example, on a Purchasing audit: 5.) Select 5 recent purchase orders for production material and evaluate for correct and complete Quality approval. 6.) Using the selected purchase orders review the supplier approval requirements...


you get the idea.
 

normzone

Trusted Information Resource
#15
" An engineer will see some things a receiving clerk may not "

And vice versa as well.

I'm attempting to flesh out a framework to support our internal auditor's efforts, which led me to this search. I love how the Cove turns up in my searches whenever I have a question.

I guess there's a fine line between detailing the audit form too much information thereby discouraging investigation, and sending in auditors with minimal experience and telling them " There's no checklist any more, go conduct a process audit ".

I recently volunteered to lead internal audits solely to develop something with elements of the former and less of the latter.

Thanks all:agree1:
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#16
My initial point was that I don't think it is helpful to the audit process to 'automate' it by exclusively using pre-prepared questions for each auditor to ask - you may as well do it by telephone :)
I resemble this remark. We have such prepared checklists but I abandoned them early. We do have a matrix of suggested elements to cover in each process, and it's a given that certain things should be asked and certain samples should be taken. I have an "empty" checklist that isn't quite empty; it contains certain elements by default and I build from there.

I have reached the point where I look at records first from my desk (those that are online) and then ask questions that occur to me as I look at the records. I am prone to zoom in one something questionable that I find, and excavate. This is certainly not what these poor auditees grew used to before I came. Now they never know what I will ask them. They are taking it well.

I also base my questions on learnings from audits of other processes and past audits of this process. In this way I look for trends and evidence of systemic versus localized problems.

Certainly this is not the work of a newbie or part time auditor that needs reminding what to do. Nor do I always find it especially comfortable - it feels irregular. But it helped me jump the rut of always asking the same things, feeling stale and declining in effectiveness.
:2cents:
 

Colin

Quite Involved in Discussions
#17
Jennifer, I think you raise a very good point about the competence of the auditor and also the maturity of the system.

I usually suggest that new auditors with a new system should concentrate on verifying that the procedures are in place and are being complied with. In other words, mainly compliance. The problem I see is that these audits have a limited life as they become very stale after a few years.

It is then that auditors need to look more for improvements rather than pure compliance. The standard questions can still be considered - (I like the idea of 'suggested elements' to be checked) - but the auditors should now have more experience and more ability to add their own flavour to the audit questions.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#18
Well Colpart, your post certainly goes the distance in validating my approach, which I had felt was pretty unconventional but suited me because I have such a short attention span. :thanks: Certainly it is not what I recommended my new boss do - he is new in Quality and auditing, and is so far much more comfortable with the prepared checklists but is certainly able to excavate (he loves the term) when he catches a whiff of something.
 
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