Process Effectiveness and Efficiency (IATF 16949)

[Blaest]

IATF 16949:2016

9.2.2.2 Quality management system audit

"The organization shall audit all quality management system processes.. ..using the process approach.."


Would it be correct to state we would need to differentiate between exactly 3 type of processes?

• 9.2.2.2: “..quality management system processes”
• 5.1.1.2: “..product realization processes”
• 5.1.1.2: “..support processes”

If so, how would I define/differentiate between the processes?

 

[jfriess]

I agree we have 5 main processes but the IATF 16949 standard states that you must have a "process" for 23 (I think) items with in the standard. Examples are 4.4.1.2product safety, 8.4.1.2 external provider selection, 8.4.2.4 external provider monitoring, 8.4.2.1 type and extent of control (external provider), 8.4.2.2 statutory and regulatory requirement (external provider), 7.1.5.2.1 calibration and verification, 7.1.5.3.1 internal laboratory, 7.2.1 competency, 7.2.3 internal auditor competency, 7.3.2 employee motivation and empowerment, 7.5.3.2.2 engineering specifications, 8.3.1.1 design and development, 8.3.3.2 manufacturing process design input, 8.3.5.2 manufacturing process design output, 8.5.1.5 total productive maintenance, 8.5.6.1 control of changes, 8.7.1.4 control of reworked product, 8.7.1.5 control of repaired product, 8.7.1.7 nonconforming product disposition, 9.2.2.1 internal audit, 10.2.3 problem solving, 10.2.4 error proofing, 10.3.1continual improvement.

My question is how is everyone monitoring these for effectiveness and efficiency? If not, how are they not? I am changing auditors so hopefully this will help me, but has anyone that has gotten certified to the new standard ran into this issue and how did they handle it.

I know I answered your question with a questions, but I am still unsure.

I agree with the people that have supported that this is not needed, but just want to make sure that i am covered in the event that another auditor "interprets" the standard the same was...

 

[Golfman25]

I agree we have 5 main processes but the IATF 16949 standard states that you must have a "process" for 23 (I think) items with in the standard. Examples are 4.4.1.2product safety, 8.4.1.2 external provider selection, 8.4.2.4 external provider monitoring, 8.4.2.1 type and extent of control (external provider), 8.4.2.2 statutory and regulatory requirement (external provider), 7.1.5.2.1 calibration and verification, 7.1.5.3.1 internal laboratory, 7.2.1 competency, 7.2.3 internal auditor competency, 7.3.2 employee motivation and empowerment, 7.5.3.2.2 engineering specifications, 8.3.1.1 design and development, 8.3.3.2 manufacturing process design input, 8.3.5.2 manufacturing process design output, 8.5.1.5 total productive maintenance, 8.5.6.1 control of changes, 8.7.1.4 control of reworked product, 8.7.1.5 control of repaired product, 8.7.1.7 nonconforming product disposition, 9.2.2.1 internal audit, 10.2.3 problem solving, 10.2.4 error proofing, 10.3.1continual improvement.

My question is how is everyone monitoring these for effectiveness and efficiency? If not, how are they not? I am changing auditors so hopefully this will help me, but has anyone that has gotten certified to the new standard ran into this issue and how did they handle it.

I know I answered your question with a questions, but I am still unsure.

I agree with the people that have supported that this is not needed, but just want to make sure that i am covered in the event that another auditor "interprets" the standard the same was...

We combine them. For example you cite several processes which have to do with suppliers and purchasing. Those are all part of our purchasing process. We keep our metrics on that main process. Your auditor is out of his mind.

 

[jfriess]

I was hoping someone would say to combine them. That is what I have been doing!! Thanks!!

Just glad that I have the opportunity to change auditors That is not always the case

 

[David J Quality]

Re: Process effectiveness and efficiency

Howste,

what is the difference of effectiveness and efficiency or is there a difference? Should there be some sort of separate measurement for each for each process?

Thank you!

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Sorry, I linked a wrong definition. The correct ones are from ISO 9000:2015.

3.7.10 efficiency
relationship between the result achieved and the resources used

3.7.11 effectiveness
extent to which planned activities are realized and planned results are achieved

Note 1 to entry: This constitutes one of the common terms and core definitions for ISO management system standards given in Annex SL of the Consolidated ISO Supplement to the ISO/IEC Directives, Part 1. The original definition has been modified by adding “are” before “achieved”.

 

[Golfman25]

Re: Process effectiveness and efficiency

Howste,

what is the difference of effectiveness and efficiency or is there a difference? Should there be some sort of separate measurement for each for each process?

Thank you!

For IATF you'll need an effectiveness and an efficiency measurement for each process. For many processes it is silliness. Try to combine as many as possible to keep your numbers down.

 

[Snow906]

Look at the Main Processes (we have ours listed in our Quality Manual). For example, we measure the effectiveness of our Production Order Fulfillment process by on time shipments and customer complaint volume. We measure the efficiency of it by our scrap percentage and premium freight costs. Hope this might help you.

 

[howste]

Re: Process effectiveness and efficiency

Howste,

what is the difference of effectiveness and efficiency or is there a difference? Should there be some sort of separate measurement for each for each process?

Thank you!

Sidney gave you the right definitions. In layman's terms effectiveness is getting the right result. Efficiency is determining what it costs you (time, $, resources) to get the result.

Generally they aren't measured in the same way.

 

[AMIT BALLAL]

Effectiveness:
Whether you are getting desired result. This is generally referred as quality (Of output of the process).

Eg. 1. If you go to a restaurant, if the quality of food / service is good, then you can say its effective.
2. For maintenance processes, output required is less breakdowns of machines (Machines should be in good condition). You can measure no. of breakdowns / breakdown hours for this, which will become measure of effectiveness.

Efficiency:
Extent to which cost, effort, time are well utilized.

Eg. 1. If the price of the food is too much, then it is not efficient.
2. For maintenance process, if the cost of spares is high, then is not efficient.

For efficiency measurement, you can use various measurements such as following(Other than examples stated above):
Eg. For time: Time taken to deliver food / Mean Time To Repair (MTTR)- related to maintenance
For effort: Plan Vs actual adherence to Maintenance plan (Whether your efforts are in right direction/ relevant)
For cost: Cost of Poor quality


You require both effectiveness and efficiency. And measuring only one thing is not helpful.


Regards,
Amit