Product Audit - Explanation and samples of the report - TS 16949

M

mneedha1

#31
Re: Product Audit - Explanation and samples of the report

In my opinion several messages have confused product and process audits.
Product audits are clearly to confirm if the product conforms to some (or all) dimensional or functional requirements. Therefore it involves inspections, measurements, and or tests of the product, not the process.

If your organization uses a Control Plan (or Quality Plan), then the product audit may be performed to determine the results of some Control Plan checks. The output of this product audit should be a 'report' of some kind that clearly states the usual audit specific information (date, time, who was contacted, etc). And specifically, 1) what criteria / specification / standard was used to evaluate the product, 2) if the product(s) audited conform, and 3) if they do not, what was done to correct or prevent the non-conforming product from being released.

I hope this is helpful
Mike
 
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M

Mandy0814

#32
Hi,
Just attended Internal Auditors training. As per consultant, auditor should not inspect or perform any test/inspection during product audit.
my question is, do we just need to check the record only?

i am now have to develop a form for product audit, and i was confusing this (product audit) with process audit. anyone can help me out? thanks. :thanx:
 

sushant_kulkarni

Involved In Discussions
#33
Re: Product Audit - Explanation and samples of the report

Can anyone give some explanation and samples of the report for conducting product audit. Meaning how do I go about it? Our company is the manufacturer of automotive battery. In TS we need to do product audit. from where shall we start the product audit.

please advice.

thanks
First make plan for Product audit.

As u say its automobile industry.

U may not have wide range product.

I just check out avaliability of my product audit sample & plan.

and send to u for ref.
 
A

Athies

#34
Re: Product Audit - For Semiconductor Commodity supplier

Hi All,
Greeetings,
Any one here is involved/works in the semiconductor subcontracting(Tier 2) business
We are in a quandary. U see a lot of customers, audit us and all of them have their own intrepretation of product audit, especially the(Tier One) one supplier, who subcontract their manufactruing businesses to organizations like us.
As all the semiconductorains know( ha ha just coined a new word), the parts are tested, dimensions are measured and records maintained all along the processes. So what is the point of doing additional dimension measurements/ testing per defined frequency. Mind you, in the semiconducotor business, millions of parts are made daily.

Any feedback is welcome and much appreciated!!!

Thanks Athies
 
P

pinpin - 2009

#35
I have been thinking about these audits (systems, manufacturing process, product) for quite a while....

I think like this:

1) We don't know whether the process generating the product is ok if we don't check on the product.

2) The process is made up of man, machine, material, method, and work environment. We shall check all of them to ensure they are ok, so that good product can be generated.

3) From checking of product, we may find the causes of its nonconformities.

4) So, I would design a product checklist to capture all the product features and characteristics and defects, without process checks in there.

5) Then, I would also design manufacturing process checklist to check on all the man, machine, material, method, and work environment.

6) But, I would use the product audit result to zoom into relevant manufacturing process steps with the help of the control plan and PFMEA to find out if there is anything wrong with any of the man, machine, material, method, and work environment used there, also the interface (the earlier step and subsequent step).

Now I conclude, I would audit like this:

1) At each step of the control plan, I audit the product generated there first.

2) Then, I would check that control plan is being followed at the step.

3) But, in addition, I would assess the strength and weakness of the man, machine, material, method, and work environment in that step, even though the control plan is being followed at that step.

4) As the Standard says: audit base on importance and status....I would only audit when the process is new and when there are customer complaints or process instability. Unless I have the luxurious of time, I will not do additional audits be repeating it to meet the so-called "defined frequency". I think my
"defined frequency" is "new and when...".

OK? Any problems? Please teach me...:thanks::thanx:
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#36
I have been thinking about these audits (systems, manufacturing process, product) for quite a while....

I think like this:

1) We don't know whether the process generating the product is ok if we don't check on the product.

2) The process is made up of man, machine, material, method, and work environment. We shall check all of them to ensure they are ok, so that good product can be generated.

3) From checking of product, we may find the causes of its nonconformities.

4) So, I would design a product checklist to capture all the product features and characteristics and defects, without process checks in there.

5) Then, I would also design manufacturing process checklist to check on all the man, machine, material, method, and work environment.

6) But, I would use the product audit result to zoom into relevant manufacturing process steps with the help of the control plan and PFMEA to find out if there is anything wrong with any of the man, machine, material, method, and work environment used there, also the interface (the earlier step and subsequent step).

Now I conclude, I would audit like this:

1) At each step of the control plan, I audit the product generated there first.

2) Then, I would check that control plan is being followed at the step.

3) But, in addition, I would assess the strength and weakness of the man, machine, material, method, and work environment in that step, even though the control plan is being followed at that step.

4) As the Standard says: audit base on importance and status....I would only audit when the process is new and when there are customer complaints or process instability. Unless I have the luxurious of time, I will not do additional audits be repeating it to meet the so-called "defined frequency". I think my
"defined frequency" is "new and when...".

OK? Any problems? Please teach me...:thanks::thanx:
pinpin,

Look at my response to one of your posts here.

I hate for you to worry so much!

Stijloor.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#37
Hi,
Just attended Internal Auditors training. As per consultant, auditor should not inspect or perform any test/inspection during product audit.
my question is, do we just need to check the record only?

i am now have to develop a form for product audit, and i was confusing this (product audit) with process audit. anyone can help me out? thanks. :thanx:

Whether you reinspect a feature or not during a product audit is up to you. When I suspect something, I always ask someone to reinspect something to verify it is accurate. Sometimes it is a good audit technique.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#38
Whether you reinspect a feature or not during a product audit is up to you. When I suspect something, I always ask someone to reinspect something to verify it is accurate. Sometimes it is a good audit technique.
It is an excellent audit technique. Nothing beats a "show me" audit point.
Because auditors are expected to audit processes on all shifts, it is an excellent technique to verify consistency in practice, a major source of variation in inspection/testing results.

Stijloor.
 
P

pinpin - 2009

#39
pinpin,

Look at my response to one of your posts here.

I hate for you to worry so much!

Stijloor.
I worry because my Management only look at number of NC we have and I am responsible.

I worry so much because my remuneration would be affected if auditors found NC in these!

Of course these NCs must be correct and accurate, so I need to understand what constitute correctness.

My experience with most auditors were that what they think and what I think are always different, and what they say not that are not right are almost always not right for me because they tend to ask us to apply huge organization practice in our small business.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#40
I worry because my Management only look at number of NC we have and I am responsible.
No, you are not. The person that "owns" the process is.

I worry so much because my remuneration would be affected if auditors found NC in these!
I can understand, but your management has to accept the fact that they have a clearly defined resposibility too. Re: Section 5 in ISO and ISO/TS

Of course these NCs must be correct and accurate, so I need to understand what constitute correctness.
I understand. You must ensure that this gets done. Not that you have to do the work.

My experience with most auditors were that what they think and what I think are always different, and what they say not that are not right are almost always not right for me because they tend to ask us to apply huge organization practice in our small business.
That's why it OK to push back. You do not have to accept everything they say, or interpret what they say as a requirement. Remember, it's your quality management system. Nobody knows better how it works than you and the managers (I hope ;)).

Stijloor.
 
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