Product Audit - Explanation and samples of the report - TS 16949

P

pinpin - 2009

#41
Thank you Stijloor, too bad that sometimes Management thought the auditor is right! And they thought I am looking for excuse to get away from the NC. I just feel disappointed that some of them make simple things into complicated ones.:(
 
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S

SRivers

#42
I'd like to thank you guys for all the information you have provided in this post. During my last TS audit, the auditor asked if we did product audits. We explained how we did them...basically an internal process audit using the PQCT as a guide through the process. This guy insisted that was not a product audit. He suggested a couple of books to purchase and read. Well, $80 bucks later and many hours of pouring over these painfully boring works of literary instruction, I realized we've been doing product audits all along with our internal process activity. Don't get me wrong, I learned alot by reading those books but for the reason I read them....well...it was a waste of my time. Oh yeah...just to put my two cents in with who is assigned the audits....Our QC department normally conducts these audits in conjunction with the department team leaders. I sure hope that is right! lol
Susan :tg:

"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon."
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#43
I worry because my Management only look at number of NC we have and I am responsible.

I worry so much because my remuneration would be affected if auditors found NC in these!

Of course these NCs must be correct and accurate, so I need to understand what constitute correctness.

My experience with most auditors were that what they think and what I think are always different, and what they say not that are not right are almost always not right for me because they tend to ask us to apply huge organization practice in our small business.
NCs are intended by ISO to help push improvement. So, management should not punish you for NCs. That is foolish and naive. Certainly, your remuneration should not be tied to it. That is very counterproductive.

Having said that, with all due respect to your auditors, it sounds like you should find yourself a better auditor. Perhaps your company is not getting its money's worth from your current provider.
 
A

Athies

#44
:mad:Yeah, we are in the same boat... every customer request is entertained.
No body debates, discusses any thing with the customer's auditors.
The auditors too do not want to understand our way of operation and the way things are done to suit our infrastructure, facilities and IT systems
 
M

Mandy0814

#45
hi,
What we normally do for product audit is pull some unit from production and perform some test (in order to determine the unit are fulfilling the specification/requirements).
During our last ts surveillance audit, the auditor did comment on the product audit. He said auditor shall not need to perform any test, we shall just sampling pick a lot from finished goods, and then just trace the record from backwards until the incoming store (raw materials).
Therfore, we are performing this kind of product audit now. from my point of view, it is much simple that we did last time... for now, we just pull record and attach to the audit report.
my doubts is, what will be the nc?
at the same time, i am reading vda 6.5. a bit confusing for me, as from my understanding, it requires auditors to perform some sort of test...???
Anyone can provide detailed guideline on product audit? or any example...
 
S

SRivers

#46
That sounds much more simple than what I have been reading about. Our TS auditor suggested us buying this book, Quality Audits for Improved Performance" by Dennis Arter,to direct us in performing product audits. I have the book on order but from what I read in the excert prior to ordering it seems like we already do this with our quality daily checks and our quality shipping dock audits. If what your auditor outlined for you is all we need to do then I would be very very happy!!! Our quality associates can do that on a weekly basis in no time flat being that we have a great lot tracability system in place. I am hoping that after I read the book I can combine the text with the information here on the Cove to implement a solid system here. Eventually we'll get it right! lol
Thanks!!!
Susan:D
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#47
Re: Product Audit - For Semiconductor Commodity supplier

Hi All,
Greeetings,
Any one here is involved/works in the semiconductor subcontracting(Tier 2) business
We are in a quandary. U see a lot of customers, audit us and all of them have their own intrepretation of product audit, especially the(Tier One) one supplier, who subcontract their manufactruing businesses to organizations like us.
As all the semiconductorains know( ha ha just coined a new word), the parts are tested, dimensions are measured and records maintained all along the processes. So what is the point of doing additional dimension measurements/ testing per defined frequency. Mind you, in the semiconducotor business, millions of parts are made daily.

Any feedback is welcome and much appreciated!!!

Thanks Athies
I am in the semincon too. We perform product audit on automitive product, selecting a lot of a device before it is shipped and going backwards.
In the shipping process we check if the labelling it is ok as per spec, storage procedure has been respected, packaging has been correctly done etc., looking at the control. Then we go backward, checking at sampling some point of the line ( whereas there are special characteristics) where the lot had eventually some problems, we check the reaction mechanism applied and so on. We review at sampling if the equipment where processed the lot had the qual well done etc, msa implemented etc... up to incoming where we check at sample some raw material if they have spec update, MSDS. In general we also review the associated PPAP if the documentation is ok ( FMEA update, process flow, MSA , Cp/CPK etc...). Review if there are some customer complaint open, check eventually the action 8D. All is related to that sampled selected lot of a specifi device under the scope of the product audit. The audit is above all at desk, but we also interview several process owner along all the process flow chart, but we also go in some areas where it is requested to see thing face to face ( I mean shipping, packaging, incoming...)
We put this in the internal audit program and planned it once annually. If there are issue we can increase the frequency.
ISO TS reuire to have 3 types of audit and if it is not included this, it is a non conformity. I agree with you about the control in line and at probing of the chip for seminconductor business, but the requirement is clear and it shall be meet.
At the end we make a report where we highlight strenghts and ncn that will be addressed al organization level.:bigwave:
 
G

Gyanveer

#48
I have a question Im always confused as I get conflicting answers ...my customer that is Tata Motors Ltd Insists that layout inspection reports and product audits have to be done for every component each month but TS says you can do layout inspections bi annualy
what about product audits they are to be done every month ?
What should be the audit period for product audit:confused:
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#49
I have a question Im always confused as I get conflicting answers ...my customer that is Tata Motors Ltd Insists that layout inspection reports and product audits have to be done for every component each month but TS says you can do layout inspections bi annualy
what about product audits they are to be done every month ?
What should be the audit period for product audit:confused:
Hi Gyanveer.
First of all, layout inspection and product audits are two different things.
You can go in depth searching in this forum.
However , if your customer give you this requirement related to the frequency of layout inspection as well as product audit , you shall meet it, clearly agreeing it with the customer about the "cost" for you of this requirement.
ISO TS does not anything about the frequence of layout inspection and product audit as you can see in clauses 8.2.4.1 and 8.2.2.3 as well as modalities to do them.
Stay in touch with Tata for this. I do not know that this is a requirement of them included in Supplier Quality Manual that could have been shared with you.
Give more details
Hope this helps
 
J

jzach

#50
Im new to the product audit process. Should the documents being created be in a checklist form or made to be like a questionare? What type of information needs to be gathered? What is the main purpose for product auditng? What type of questions should be asked? I work in a foundry.Aluminum castings. Permanent mold castings.
 
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