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Product Audit - Traceability of Sand used

ajay.khosla

Involved In Discussions
#1
hi to all the quality gurus
I am in a forging industry,actually in this firm i want to start doing product audit.we are already doing PDI'S,the problem is that when sand comes they put it in a big pit and it becomes impossible to know that from which lot of sand core is getting made,so traceability becomes difficult.
So,tell me how can i start it or how can i overcome this situation
 

Chennaiite

Never-say-die
Trusted
#2
Re: product audit

hi to all the quality gurus
I am in a forging industry,actually in this firm i want to start doing product audit.we are already doing PDI'S,the problem is that when sand comes they put it in a big pit and it becomes impossible to know that from which lot of sand core is getting made,so traceability becomes difficult.
So,tell me how can i start it or how can i overcome this situation
Can you first clarify, is it a casting industry that is mentioned as forging by mistake?
I handle Casting Suppliers, as far as I know, traceability for Core sand is uncalled for. But to let the experts clarify your doubt, do explain also your need for maintaining traceability (for Core Sand).
 

ajay.khosla

Involved In Discussions
#3
Re: product audit

ohhh i am really sorry actually i had to write foundry but by mistake i wrote forging,sorry for that sir.
now the question is this sir that as you know product audit kinda checks traceability also as u go from last step to first step in an industry checking various parameters for a specific product(made from control plan).now the thing is this that whenever core section comes into play,traceability of sand becomes difficult,this is the problem like from which lot of sand that specific core was made.
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Re: product audit

ohhh i am really sorry actually i had to write foundry but by mistake i wrote forging,sorry for that sir.
now the question is this sir that as you know product audit kinda checks traceability also as u go from last step to first step in an industry checking various parameters for a specific product(made from control plan).now the thing is this that whenever core section comes into play,traceability of sand becomes difficult,this is the problem like from which lot of sand that specific core was made.
If you really need this traceability, can you not have two pits made (ex. pit 1 / pit 2) and fill each with a known sand lot identification ? Cover one and use the other. Use the pits something like a two bin inventory system. While the one is in use, replenish the other and identify the sand lot in it.
Does the sand go back to the pit after use ? I am not from foundry experience but I know that the sand is reused in some cases. Please clarify. If it does go back, then the traceability has much less meaning.
Like Chennaiite asked earlier, what do you do with this traceability information .. ?
 

ajay.khosla

Involved In Discussions
#5
Re: product audit

yes,sand can be used again,with traceability,i will get to know that from which lot the defective core has been made.moreover,one advantage of doing product audit is also traceability
And we can make two pits as its a very very large pit,no one will agree to it
 
D

DrM2u

#6
:read:If I am reading this correctly it seems to me like you are looking at sand traceabiltiy as part of correlating problems with cores/molds to a specific lot of sand and not as part of the final product traceability. Is this correct?

Like Chennaiite mentioned before, traceability of the product to the core/mold sand is rarely (if ever) requested from a foundry. As a matter of fact I recall that in most cases the traceabiltiy of the cast part is to the chemical composition analysis for each lot/batch of molten material (along with some physical or mechanical properties sometimes). This means that you do not need to maintain traceability to the sand or to the components that go in the furnace or crucible. There is no value and extreme difficulty in maintaining such a traceability.

Now if you want sand traceability for problem solving and/or containment purposes, then Somashekar's proposed solution of multiple pits (at least two for virgin sand and one for recycled) might help address your needs. Another option is to do a chemical analysis for each batch of sand in use to ensure that you have the proper amount of binding agent, humidity, compresability, etc.

I hope that my :2cents: help along with the other postings.
 

Chennaiite

Never-say-die
Trusted
#7
Re: product audit

yes,sand can be used again,with traceability,i will get to know that from which lot the defective core has been made.moreover,one advantage of doing product audit is also traceability
And we can make two pits as its a very very large pit,no one will agree to it
Ajay,

It is extremely important to first understand the extent of traceability required. I had come across this thread in the recent past where the "extent" of traceability is discussed at length. Hope this would help.

As far as my knowledge goes, Core sand batch variation, per se, contributes little for the (Core) defects and to think of traceability under this context does not add value.:nope:
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#8
What standard are you certified to?
This will make difference.
In your experience have you traced problems in parts back to the sand?
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
hi to all the quality gurus
I am in a forging industry,actually in this firm i want to start doing product audit.we are already doing PDI'S,the problem is that when sand comes they put it in a big pit and it becomes impossible to know that from which lot of sand core is getting made,so traceability becomes difficult.
So,tell me how can i start it or how can i overcome this situation
Generally speaking, this type of bulk approach is a challenge at best. If you get back to production date you are doing pretty well. If you can get to date of receipt you are above the crowd. Dow side, if there is a failure later with the product, you need to be able to narrow the sand down to some date or series of dates (or lots if you prefer).

That may be determined by such things as how many piles there are, how often sand is received into them, and how fast you go through the sand.

Hope this helps.
 
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